How to Create a Safe Environment for Emotional Expression - Part 1 with Thera Storm, LCSW

So, um, I'm excited to just get, just have a conversation with you about all the amazing incredible work you've done with grief recovery. Um, kind of the passion, um, communities that you want to help with grief recovery. Um, and just, and also just, you know, learn about how you apply this in daily life. Kind of what brought you to the grief recovery method.

All that good stuff. So, um, without any further ado, Tara, welcome to the Feel Free Again podcast. I am so happy to be here and I'm happy to chat with you. I, I saw you in a distance at one of the conferences as a grief recovery institute back in LA.

Um, and that was after I was newly minted as a specialist. So I remember saying you, but everyone was so busy and I was just taking all the notes at the time. So yeah, yeah. Yeah.

No, it's, uh, yeah. Right. Likewise. Which one was it?

Was it the first one or the second one? Do you remember? Was it 2016 or 2018? 2018. It was 2018.

Okay. Got you. Yes. I remember being there and, you know, I was curious with people who listen, you know, when they hear this, I, you know, identification or this, like, introduction of an LCSW, what that brings up for people.

So I think there can be a stereotype of what therapists are like or what they do. And then also, like, military spouses, what that's like. So, um, you know, I was thinking about this the other day, when we introduce ourselves, we tend to kind of give a cab, like, what we do as who we are. Right.

Like, I don't know, like, what's your elevator pitch? Like, if I met you on an elevator, not at the institute, but how would you describe yourself? Yeah. That's, that's a great question.

Um, it all, it's all context for me, right? It's funny. I, I, I'm coaching one of my son's, um, travel baseball teams, right? And I, I actually have not told him what I do.

And we've been working together all winter long. We have winter, we have winter baseball. Um, and so we practice twice a week. So I'm at practice with them twice a week.

And we have great conversations. We cover a lot of different ground. Um, and it's actually interesting. Right.

I live in Idaho now where L.A. It was like, when I lived in L.A. It was like, you're going to cover that in the first interaction, no matter what, right? Everyone wants to know what everyone does in L.A.

For whatever reason. In Idaho, it's just kind of like, you can go for weeks and weeks and weeks, find common ground in a lot of places. And it's so funny. I was in a, I was at a baseball game with him coaching my son this past weekend.

And there's runners on first and third. We're trying to get him to score. And, and he's like, so what do you do? And I'm like, I can't talk right now.

Let's focus on the game, right? So, um, anyways, I don't know why I bring that up other than, um, I really, I mean, my elevator pitch, like, if someone directly wants to know what I do, right? I will let him know. I help, I help people with grief and loss.

Right? That's all that's all I say. Because really, I want to hear their story, right? And, and so really the next thing is the second you say what you do exactly.

Yeah. You're someone they can get wrecked with and talk to you. Yeah. Right.

And that's what I'm interested in. I'm interested in, in connecting with them on a human level. And because I've been trained right to, to really understand that as grievers were so isolated, that the biggest gift I can give someone, whether I'm on an airplane or, you know, at, at the baseball game, um, is really listen to them. Because I just want to hear their story and, and make sure they have someone in their life at some point that just heard their story, right?

And didn't want to dissect it or offer advice or anything like that, right? So I don't, I don't have an elevator pitch. What do you do? Oh, I help people with grief and loss knowing that next question or, or usually it's going to be like, oh, where were you when I needed you?

Or, man, I could have used you a year ago, right? And then, uh, and I know, away we go, right? And so, because really my goal is, um, my goal is to just, um, again, allow them to feel heard and make sure they know that this interaction, it was different than most interactions they have around the topic of grief. And a lot of time they, they won't know why, you know, and we know why it's because we didn't get in the way.

We just said, oh, I'm sorry. So, you needed this work a year ago, what happened, right? And, and, and a go, and right, and if we have an hour, that story is going to go for the next hour, right? Just because of the skills we have and the safety and, and the listening environment, we know, it was more like that, which is so simple.

To say, oh, I, I help people who are sad and they have a free space to talk. It's really not rocket science. It's like, we can do this as human beings. It doesn't have to be this degree or this, you know, you know, just being a friend.

I'm like, it'd be beautiful. One day, we weren't really because so many people have these basic skills to give us. Exactly, right? I would love to be worked out of a job.

I'm really, it's interesting you bring that up. I'm so, I'm so frustrated, honestly, at 2024 and the culture and the civilization we live in, because everyone wants to overcomplicate everything. They want to reinvent the wheel and pretend like humans haven't figured this out like hundreds of generations ago, you know, in different instances. And it's like, you're absolutely right.

It's like, I was just, I got done two weekends ago with the certification. And my like so much of what I was trying to teach these incredible people was like, don't over complicate it. Don't over complicate it. Don't grab every new word in the grief world that's proposed every year.

And it's like, I have hyper complex calculus grief. I have super complicated, you know, obstructed grief. It's like, you're just putting more roadblocks in the way of people to like over complicate things, right? You don't need to latch on to every $15 word that you hear.

In fact, you're going to connect more with the $3 words, right? And, and, you know, and group, yeah, grief recovery is going to always be that, right? It's always going to be that as long as I'm here, right? Yeah.

Because I have this really goofy example, but it's like, I did you Jitsu. Like, I've done Jitsu long enough to like not be good at Jitsu, but, but think I know some stuff. But really what I see is I love Jiu Jitsu because they want to really protect the lineage, right? And you see, you see like in that in that martial art, we're still like grandfather level, right?

So people are still understanding the source of it, right? But it's like, you get five or six or seven generations out and then you start making compromises and you make things overly complex. And, you know, and, and you can see them really having a battle there with just like, no, no, let's keep it, keep it what it was meant to be, right? And let's keep it here.

And then other people are like, no, let's, let's create this whole other thing. And anyway, I don't, I know we don't have time to go down that rabbit hole very long, but again, we love to overcomplicate stuff. And some of the people that struggle the most with certification training are the people with the most education, right? It's like, I'm actually a little bit worried if you have like 15 letters behind your name, right?

And if you have like multiple doctorates and PhDs, I'm actually really worried because in this work, it takes you farther away from what we're trying to do, right? Would you have any thoughts on that? A million thoughts on a go for it. You know, okay.

So you said this in one of the first podcasts you did about how most time you meet therapists on a plane or whatever, they're like, oh, we had like 12 minutes of a chapter in a book about grief in the whole master's program. Whatever I'm like, up, yep, same here. We were told about the five stages that were happening, right? So when I was working, again, military spells, maybe I'm going to that story a little bit later, but like I find myself working for the Navy full of time and their fleet and family services center doing solution focus counseling, right?

And I noticed there's this grief and and loss in my clients. And I didn't feel equipped on how to like really help them. And again, you know, if I went to a training, I'm like, um, equip me. Give me the, give me the scripting.

Give me the things to say. And I remember going a long story into how I got to grief recovery method because it took me a while to bite the amount of money. So I was like, oh, man, I don't know if I just fell as money and my master's degree. And I'm still paying off loans.

Um, and then I was hit with a friend who had a intense loss. Her daughter died at age seven. And I was, I didn't know what to say. And I thought if I don't know what to say.

And here I have my master's degree, you know, if I don't know what to say, then what are the, what's the world saying? So when I went to the training, finally, best four days and money I've ever spent, by the way. But when I went, Cole, I was like this, Bobby Rill, I don't know, she'll remember me. I was in this horseshoe room, right?

We're in this horse. She boxes. Everyone's like, oh, you know, and I'm the asshole with my arms crossed like this. And I'm like, I'm just here to get my training so I can help people.

I don't have any, I don't have any losses. Yeah. Yeah. So it was at one point where she was sharing a beautiful story about her one her timeline about how her father bought a section at her table when she was a waitress.

And her father came in and he bought the tape, not bought the table. So he had it all his friends sitting her section her first day as a waitress. And Bobby looks over me and I just had tears streaming down my face and she's like, Tara, can I give you a hug? And I, what was exposed for me was that a lot of my losses were attached to intangible loss.

I know, big one was identity. So it's which is why I panic. On an elevator. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're, you're connecting these dots on the first day. Is this the first day? The day that we, she shares the, the, the, the, the relationship graph.

So I'm not okay. Got you. So, so, yeah. No, no, you're good.

So I was curious. So basically we're going to be on the second day. So you're on day two. Sorry.

Go ahead. I just was wondering when you were connecting those dots. Oh, yeah. I was a jerk.

I was a jerk for a good day and a half. I almost had the jerk. But I was like, I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm this military like posture. Sure.

You know, um, yeah. And I didn't dress appropriately because it was Arizona and I thought it would be hot but it's freezing inside the building. So I was also cold and just, right. You know, but that's why I was connecting these dots.

It was like, so, and this is why I kind of talked about the elevator pitch and identity because how we identify is largely what we do. So I've been chasing this like title or this education or what I do. So I have something tangible to share with people when I say who I am. Yeah.

Yeah. When I look back, there was a loss of, I did, first of all, I'm a twin. I don't know if you've met any twin. Twins kind of, again, would, if I use a word grief with being a twin, that would freak out anyone who's not grief-chained, right?

Like, oh, that's a big word of use. But I can say, right, that was like this loss of a singular independent identity. Okay. Yep.

Does that sound dramatic? Yeah. I don't know. Not at all.

Right. I'm going to say no. Because like you said, though, we're looking at it through a lens that most of the world doesn't look at it through, right? There is, there is a loss there.

There's an expectation that is shifted once you understand, oh, wow. Like, when it dawns on you, I'm sure I have a sibling that looks exactly like me and the outside expectations are going to be similar. But we're not the same. Like all of that stuff, right?

Well, what's fascinating? Looking just like, Teresa, my sister, her name's Teresa, and I'm Tara. She is to this day, she's about 5'9", 5'10", I'm 5'3". When we were younger, she was always taller, and I was little scrawny, she was athletic, smart.

I was like, you know, doing okay. And so people commented all the time. My name is physically shorter version of her name. So like, Teresa, Tara, from like everything about me is a smaller version of, or a weaker version of her, right?

And so people wouldn't make the joke. You know what you remind me of? That twins movie. And like, yeah.

So she's, I don't know, Swarzenegger, and I'm, I'm dating to be, you know, is that it? And they're like, yeah, bingo, you know, by, by the way, just, just, this is so wild. Family movie night for weeks ago. I'm dating to be though.

I'm your man. Gotcha. Gotcha. Wow.

Okay. You know, it's interesting, Tara. I've never actually, you know, I've worked with a lot of people around a lot of different losses. And this is a first for me.

I've never heard this story. So this is fascinating to me. And then also heartbreaking. And like, I can't imagine what it was like for you in that time frame, right?

Not, not adult Tara, like, who's done the work and loves who she is, right? But, but little Tara, right? Like you said, like, I'm sure at times people would assume you're the younger sister and stuff like that. Did that happen too?

Oh, yeah. Like, I got her hand me down. So like, you know, siblings, you get the hand me down from your older sibling, you know, sister. Wow.

Yep. But again, I'm not, I think it's kind of, it's humorous. I think it's worth affirming and noting. Because I think there might be other people out there that are like, I never would have thought, like that something worth mentioning is part of my identity and how I maybe have a need to be something, what's something I strive for?

Sure. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Well, and again, we want to, as adults, we want to minimize that. I have a part of my story where my cousin Blake, who I lost to a suicide. Um, when we were younger, he, he was like the guy that's like, Hey, I just got a new belt and karate. Let me show you move, right?

But it wasn't like, let me show you the move. It's like, you're, you're kind of my test dummy. And I'm going to do like the move full speed. Okay.

I'm, what, I'm going to 42 years old. That's funny, right? It's like a joke. Everyone laughs.

Uh, I assure you he was 15 wrestler from Iowa, right? I was eight. And when I'm, he's doing full moves on me at the time at eight years old. It was scary, confusing, terrifying.

When I say, Hey, can you, they slow down a little bit and he wouldn't, you know, that's, that's real life. So, but again, most of us don't ever have that opportunity to kind of go look at it again. Like, oh, no, that, that stuff was real then, right? And this films were felt at 100% and they were very traumatic at that time.

Yes. Yep. Yep. Exactly.

Right. And, and so anyway, um, thank you for, for kind of, again, just, just letting the audience know like, wow, this is all grief. Like, who's going to deny that a sister, a twin sister, but not identical, right? Again, sorry, I don't know the terminology, but that, who's going to deny that that's not a grieving experience for you growing up?

You know, that's why I have also a heart for teenagers that I really want, you know, children and adolescents to be, to be seen and to give them a language around grief and loss, because like, I remember, you know, Trees and I going into a new middle school and sixth grade, we were 11 going on 12. We walk into a new school and they didn't have our records or whatever. So they saw her name, Trees and then Tara. And they deleted me off the roster because they thought I was a duplicate because my name was so, so similar.

When we go into this new school, Trees was, you know, taller and whatever and I had, I shit you not, I had headgear and a bionator and a bike because I had all these jaw issues and teeth up. I had this retainer that held my tongue back with the headgear. So I walked, we're both walking in and I'm like, hey, my name was terrible. I couldn't talk because my tongue was all about, and they said, sweet word.

So they put me in the special ed classes because like that we, we come to the office, we, you're without your duplicate, we don't have a schedule for you. So we'll put you in the, the special classes because clearly that's where you belong, right? And so I look back at this, first of all, it's like a stand-up routine. Like, like, is this real life that really happened early 90s?

You know, like, I thought I didn't have a voice either. Like, what a loss of a voice physically, but then also like, I didn't advocate or I didn't know how to ask for advocating or or I just went with the flow and I look back and I think that's why I value to this day advocating for the vulnerable, giving our children a voice, like, equipping them with the right language around their feelings, their emotions and their losses and their gains and and all of that. So just a, kind of a funny story, but I look back as an adult and like, how my value system was definitely shaped by this timeline. Yeah.

Yep. Yeah. Wow. And just so you know, I was a fellow bio-nator user myself.

So I know what you're like, I'm dramatizing you. Oh my gosh. What? I, yeah, I know what that rig feels like and looks like and you know, I will say this though, I basically, I only had to wear it at night and stuff like that.

Like, I was so anyway, I'm again, not to compare, but it's like that I can, I know how awkward that all is and and and you know, again, it's like you can, we can call it grief, you can call it loss, but what I think most of the audience would identify is that it is unmet hopes, dreams and expectations. Right. It's like as a child, we were this sponge and we're taking everything in and we're taking in what life's supposed to be by cartoons. I took in what my sister was going to beat me literally by the Brady bunch.

Right. So I thought my sister was going to be Marsha Brady. Right. And I thought it was going to be perfect.

We have the same dad, we have different moms. And so we're we're so she was grieving the, you know, she was grieving stuff about the the breakup of her mom and dad, right. She, she's upset by, you know, my mom and dad being together now, right. And and and and a bunch of other stuff.

So she had her own grief that she was dealing with, right. I have a hope dream and expectation of what my sister's going to be. It was not that, right. And all of that is unmet hopes, dreams and expectations.

Right. And at the RSS society wants to get busy in electrolyzing it or or minimizing it or saying, it'll get better or you should, like we just dismiss adults, but we certainly dismiss children. We do. We do.

All the time. It's in its like my heart breaks. It's like there's this just dismissal of their very real insight and emotions around, you know, these hope streams and expectations. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. And and I know and you have you have one daughter, correct? Yes.

One daughter. Okay. I want to make sure I didn't miss anybody else. And and and we have, we have a whole gaggle of kids too.

And so I think that's a fun place. Yeah. We got four. So I think it's that's a fun place because I was on your Instagram and I love the advice you were giving other parents and stuff.

So, you know, maybe that's where we can go next is just kind of giving practical guidance to parents out there, grandparents, anyone that that have children in their care. You know, I don't think it's a it's kind of a mistake that we went here. Tara, you know, because there's a lot of stuff we can cover. We, you know, we will probably do it another episode on other stuff.

But it's like I really want people to know that like most people on this planet they're not doing a bunch of self discovery like Tara did to look back and say, okay, wow, that was all really real stuff. And that was really hurtful. And like a lot of my childhood was not how I wanted it to be. And I had hopes dreams and expectations.

And I know how to grieve and complete that stuff so that I can be present for who I am now. Like I love that you got there. I love that I got there. But like a lot of people, they don't get there.

And they never do the work to to look at that stuff. And and they certainly most people don't look at it through the lens of grief or covering. We've covered it a lot in this podcast. But I think our differentiator with this work is we do completion work.

You can pay a lot of different people to do awareness work. Right. And Tara, you know, you can you can do awareness work on the reality of what, you know, what was hurtful in your childhood. I can do, you know, awareness work on that and to make new discoveries or go think about and remember other things and even have someone really empathize with them.

Maybe like, yeah, that was probably really hard for you. And that's all good stuff. My point though is that most stuff stops there. Right.

And then you kind of go off and you go, okay, I did the awareness work. And it's like, there's another step, right. There's the completion work. There's there's completing those hurts and pains.

Right. There is saying goodbye to those things. And that's what I love about our work. Right.

And that's what I think we're, we're both probably trying to do for our children as well is like not only help them with awareness and certainly normalized things and make sure they feel heard. But then also help them with completion work. Right. Moving forward.

So anyway, do you have any examples recently just out of your life just, you know, helping your daughter navigate anything emotionally? Well, you know, a couple things come up while you're talking, you know, first of all, I'm just so grateful that as a military spouse, I have this, not like this, just this training because we can all get training. But like, I am body this lifestyle and this lens, this grief lens. Like, I make this joke like, you know, that commercial everywhere I think I see becomes a tootsie role to me.

Like that everything I think I see becomes the grief. Like I look at what I see. That's my lens, you know. And I'm so grateful that I have that lens with my husband who's been active duty marine, right.

In the way that we parent together. Like, he's told me like, I am a better leader, parent, human being, friend, son, because of you. And I receive that, you know, I don't dismiss that column. I really receive that.

That's huge for that. You know, also this language around like, this is just something that came up to me as kind of silly. But like, we tell our children all the time, you're okay, because like they fall and they, I I heard it just yesterday, a little kid falls and I was like, you're okay. And we say this all the time, you're okay, right.

I remember just a couple of years ago, I was doing this CrossFit workout, made a step on a big box with, I'm holding these dumbbells. And I'm a shorter person and it was really difficult. And I'm having a tough time in the coach is like, Terry, you're okay. And I was like, actually, I'm not, I'm not okay.

This feels really dismissive to be told I'm okay. When in my world, I'm not. Right. And I be dramatic.

I don't know. But I have like ever since that moment, I was like, I will never say it to my child, you're okay. It's like, hey, what's going on? How, what's your perception of what on is, you know, in her language?

Like, how you doing? Where I hear growled off or like, just growled off, I heard, you know, we say it, but young boys usually too. And I just think I'm so grateful that the way I parent is she gets to have a voice in an emotion. Yeah.

Emotions are a moral. There's no, it's behaviors. Now for behaviors are malicious or unkind. That's where I step in.

But emotions aren't on the spectrum of good and bad. They're what they are. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. I'm, you know, again, as you know, right?

There's no rulebook. There's no handbook for parenting. I am glad that I have the grief for Carvee Handbook. I'm glad that I have one children grieve.

I'm glad that I have other texts out there that are really important texts that I live my life by that I that I try and, you know, seek knowledge and guidance. I'm I'm not quite sure like, I'm not quite sure where I fall on the some of these things. Let me give you an example, right? So I have three boys and a girl and a call me old fashioned, but I parent I parent my boys different than my girl.

Like I just do and that's just my truth and I'm going to be okay with that. I try I try not to like, for instance, I try and break down. Is this is this like an emotional hurt or is this like a physical pain? And I do for me again, I'm not saying this is right or wrong.

I'm just trying to be honest with the audience just so we can have conversations in society without it being like, well, I think you're wrong. Like it like, oh, okay, that's cool. And here, let me let me let me tell you what I think or what where where you think I'm out with this. But so anyway, like my baseball again, if a kid throws a 50 mile an hour fastball in my in my son's thigh, any looks to me, I want to literally stokely look at him and say, you're fine.

Right. And him trot down to first base. Right. Like because I know in life as a man, he's going to have moments like that where you you do have to be stoic.

You do have to be a survivor. You do just have to take the hit and not show anything. Right. Now when when I come back from going back and forth from Oregon, Idaho, because my dad's dying of cancer, and I'm absolutely emotionally destroyed.

And I need to cry and from my my boys, I'm going to do that. And when they want to cry in front of me because there's some emotional hurt or there's some, you know, massive thing that happened at school or someone bolt, you know, was, you know, bullied them or someone someone said something that was hurtful and they have emotions about that. Like I promise, you I'm going to listen, I'm going to let them talk. I'm not going to say you're fine.

But I do think for me, there, there is difference the way I'm trying to parent around. And the other day, by the way, my son flew off a jump snowboarding and broke his collarbone. And tears were going to be totally fine with me, right. There was not going to be like a nod to him over there.

Like, you're fine. I could tell the way he he he hit. He was hurting, right. And like, we're going to let the so anyway, there's like nuances of this, right?

Because I have been around other parents where, you know, again, I try not to, but sometimes like we judge each other's parenting and all that, right? And sometimes I've seen like I've seen the kind of like be in touch with their feelings, like go so far off the rails that it's like, does that make sense? I hear your son does that make sense? Right?

Like some, yeah, I hear. Whoa, whoa, like this is, this is going to maybe backfire on that child in some ways when, when we do have to navigate all the parts of life, right? And so it could be about surviving. Like if we're a species and we're biologically designed to try to survive on this planet, there are times where we need to be cool as a cucumber, we'd have to be more stoic because that is a trait for survival.

But not really. Right, right. Maybe it's more nuanced of survivability or I don't know. Yeah.

No, that's kind of where I'm going with it is. I think right now, like when, when grief recovery came around in the 70s, right? It's like my dad, my dad's from a very stoic farming community in the Midwest, right? You have like a lot of German heritage and, you know, Scandinavian and whatever, British, it doesn't really matter.

But it's like very stoic and feelings are not okay. And I love what my, I love what my dad did in the 70s and 80s and other people in the organization, like no, we're going to push in that feelings are okay. And crying should be as normal as laughing. And I believe all of those things flash forward to 2024, you know, and you look, you, I scroll Instagram.

And like the whole thing is about feelings are okay, right? But they're missing other like nuanced points in my opinion, right? And I do think like you said, there are absolutely times when feelings are okay. And there's other times like look, ask your husband, right?

There's other times where you have to compartmentalize everything and fly the helicopter or whatever, right? It's like, no, everyone's life depends on you compartmentalizing everything and being here and only here for however long you need to be here, right? And so that's, that's like a truth, too, right? That's, that is a real truth.

Who could argue that? And so that's why he's a good helicopter pilot. Like, I couldn't fly because I would be like, is everyone okay? Like a week's I'm tired on the emotional side, you know?

Like, right, right. And, you know, and so anyway, I try, what I try and do, and again, I'm not saying this the right answer, the wrong answer, but it's like I try and treat each of my four children as individuals and I try and really meet them where they're at. And I try and be aware of what I think their struggles are, their different struggles in life. And I check in with them.

And I let them talk emotionally, you know, about their feelings and stuff like that. And then there's also times where I'm just like, you're fine. You know, like, there are other moments where I'm just look at them and they're looking for reassurance and you're fine. Like, you know, and again, it's, it's like I just think it's good for parents to have these conversations.

Just because, I think if we go kind of like to an extreme one way or the other, right? We run in a problem, if we go extreme, you're fine, extreme compartmentalize everything, that's a real problem. And if we go extreme, where your emotions on your sleeve at all costs at all times, I think that's a problem too. That may sound really wild from the from the president of the Grief Recovery Institute.

But, you know, I think that's kind of at least in my life what's worked best for me. Identifying, is it real emotional pain or is it like physical pain and or is it combination and and you know, what is appropriate reaction for me and I think the goal is for our children to feel confident in problem solving. So if they do get there in a position to problem solve, survival rate, need for emotional processing, like for them to problem solve what they need because we want to equip them so that they don't need us to do that for them. So if we're like, you could get up again, you could have a jelly, peanut bar jelly sandwich and I can make you some crackers and like or let me give you some chocolate when we hover and we do the problem solving for them, then they lack this basic skill that is crucial for having options as they get older for feeling better when they're having a bad day.

Like we need to develop in our children an ability to have options and problem solve without us. Even if that's emotional or physical, like just problem solving around accidents too. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, no, you did an Instagram post I really liked talking kind of like about this and filling the pantry, right?

And you're kind of giving your child the options, right? To do various things and dad know they have tools and they have options, right? Which is great. I guess to and I'm thinking about why I want to stay on this topic a little bit about, you know, again, the emotion sometimes being stoic, right?

Because I think you know, right? We we serve probably 80% women, right? And we serve about 20% men with grief or recovery. And it's I think find it very interesting, right?

Because this program, this method was created by my father, who was a marine combat veteran 19 months in Vietnam, right? And what I loved about my dad is that he had arranged for a man that I've never seen before, right? We're walking down the street and someone wants to kind of get weird with us and he would give them the thousand yard Vietnam stair like don't make me come out of retirement, right? And like, I felt safe and I was like, wow, that's that's a man.

That's a man. But then at the other side, if I were it's crying or I had some emotional thing or I saw him working with someone else, he was the most empathetic, loving, sweet, gentle man I've ever seen. Like he had that whole that whole range, right? And I was like, I feel so grateful that that was my father, right?

And I try and emulate that in so much of what I do with my kids. I think one of the reasons though that we don't reach a lot of men is because they think like we're going into a room for four days and crying in the fetal position, right? And I want to I want to let guys know that's not what we're doing. And you can have that range, right?

You can be an infantry marine and still do grief or recovery and be way, way more present for your wife and for your children, right? And get skills so that you know how to move from here. I've been on the job flying all day. And then when I walk through the threshold at home and my little girl needs to have like a soft dad too, I know how to go from here, put that on hold and then go for here for the for the next couple of hours, right?

Like that's what I want for guys, right? And so I don't think it's it's a miss I don't think it's an accident that we only reach 20% men, you know? But I know that like because I know you've probably helped a lot of men, I know it doesn't have to be that way as my point, right? I've I've worked at bomber bases with 20 guys in full camo for doing a four day certification.

And it went great and they got a got tons of value out of it. We I think don't know how to kind of like talk to men or market to men this work. But I think it's so important, right? Because our our men are hurting very, very bad in this society in a lot of ways, right?

And we're not reaching them with this tool. Or so a couple things, you know, so I remember doing a training at Miramar in the room was filled with our just majors, there was Lieutenant Colonel's Colonel's you know in their in this room and I was doing like a grief training. And when they introduced me, they said the Colonel said this is Terra Storm, she's just going to give us like a briefing on grief, hopefully we'll never need it. Any like here she goes.

And so when he walked away, I said, actually, you're going to use these tools before the day is over. Wow, I love that. Your kid will lose their shoes. Your wife will be upset that your kid is going to kindergarten.

Your you know, your sister will be upset that she didn't get the job she wanted. You went into today, you will use these tools on how to do reflective listening, have curiosity, you know, be a heart with ears. So it's not just for the big mishaps, right? And they were all like, whoa, like, and so again, what we do is education, education, education, right?

And so it's like doing these trainings is important because that they left that day, like I'm I feel like I'm more equipped to be a better husband. Like because my wife is upset, our kids going away to college and I wouldn't have thought that was grief worthy or you know, like that would identify as a grief worthy event, right? Because the kids still like. So that's, I can't there's another thought I had about about oh, I remember I'm in a session once at a client, male client.

And he's like, oh yeah, I'm we're like five sessions in, you know, he's like, okay, I'm ready to tell you something is just huge and it's a lot and it's really intense, but I'm feeling really vulnerable, but I have to tell you. And I'm like, okay, he's like, I have a crush on a girl, a lady at work. And I'm like, and it's like, that's it. Okay, I got it out.

I'm like, wow, that is something I would just tell the neighbor, like that, like, like, a basic thing, but for him, it was like, I'm like, I'm not saying all the men are like this or whatever, but I was like, this privacy or this like, um, and not having a safe place, even just say what I, my girlfriends and I would, that's just a basic, I would come up over breakfast. That's not like five sessions in with a therapist that you just create something like that. So I was like, gosh, just like need again, like we talked about the beginning for humanity to up level in a way that we create a space. Again, it doesn't have to be tears and hugs and rainbow.

You know, it doesn't have to be all gushy or whatever we think emotional communication looks like, but just say places that we have to speak our heart without judgment or analysis or some diagnosis or someone telling you, you know, a therapist, you know, I feel like that's like, you know, on a friend today, she's like, Tara, I'm sad that we're moving from Portugal. Oh no, my friend is moving away. And I'm sad, like, I need to talk to a therapist. I said, okay, if you weren't sad after having a best friend and then moving away, if you weren't sad, then I'd be concerned about you.

Then you're the sociopath that has no human connection and just use people, whatever, like the fact that you're sad means you're fully human. But yeah, it's we're, we think, oh, I'm broken because I'm having a motion. And this is a woman that was a military woman, but I just thought it's just fascinating these dynamics of how we interact and how we have the stigma and the male versus female. But the generalities, you know, they've shown up with my experience.

Yeah. No, I love it. And that's what I try and tell people is I have worked with, you know, a bunch of like yoga instructors in Santa Monica. I've worked with tier one guys from the most elite, you know, military fighting units we have to offer and everything in between.

And this work is so applicable to you because we honor the uniqueness of what you're going through and the uniqueness of the relationship you're grieving. And we're going to allow, like you said, we're going to allow those emotions to come out. However, they come out for you. I have seen hugely powerful work done with this, with this method without a single tier.

Because my question was, were you allowed to, did you feel safe enough to communicate your emotional truth? And the answer was yes, did you feel heard by your partner? Yes. There didn't need to be a tier there.

Okay. I have seen people have the most emotive tiers you've ever seen. And I would say that there was no completion there. Wow.

Okay. So, you know, so it's like that's another right pitfall we kind of are barometer sometimes in society as tiers. And it's like, no, like we're looking for did we can can we can we can we can ve emotional truth, right? Can we get from here to here?

Right. And so, you know, again, like I just love you being open to this conversation because it's like, yeah, we love I love helping tons and tons of women. And they absolutely need these tools. comma and are the men in our world need these tools just as desperately, right? And in fact, if you look at suicide rates and you look at alcoholism rates and you look in our prison systems, they need these tools very, very badly, right?

We just haven't figured out a way to communicate this enough to people, right? It's like you said, I get this a lot with military guys, right? Like what you said, like hopefully we'll never use this, right? But, but and then I love what you said, just about some of the practical ways they can use this with their family.

And then I'd also say to him, hey, and by the way, your way way unfinished with a bunch of the way your dad raised you. And as a as an adult, you're probably not happy with some of the ways he raised you. And if you really want a correct course and change the way you're going to raise your son, you should probably go get complete with your dad emotionally, right? Yeah.

And by the way, like I know you had a bunch of like combat loss and trauma and hurt and I don't want to minimize any of that. But I also know your loss history graph was chock full the day you entered boot camp. Like by the time you got to boot camp, your tea kettle, your pot was full and and and and right and the pressure was there. You were escaping right?

Trauma. Right. And you know, I have I have the utmost respect for our military men and women like and the families and and all of you guys that support like these these people that are doing like some of the most important work are in this country, right? So I don't want to I'm not trying to be cavalier or insulting at all.

I'm just saying like I have such a passion. I can't tell you Tara, we've helped a lot of people in the military. And then I've also had a bunch of meetings with like very high level groups that are like I'm not quite sure how we could use you know, I'm like well you just told me that like all these guys are killing themselves and you're all heartbroken over that and you lost a bunch of guys in combat too. So like I'm not quite sure why you don't think the grief or covering method is going to help your community right?

Everyone in the community right? So anyway, you know again, I know we have both have a passion to help but I think there's a there's a disconnect that's happening with men and unfortunately a lot of the decision makers around some of these units that I think need this work the most. They just don't understand what we have to offer right? They think that this work is kind of only for the yoga instructor in Santa Monica and I'm trying to tell them you know just to this is this is public kind of knowledge.

This is on YouTube. So I'll just tell you there's I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Sean Ryan podcast. So it's a he's a podcaster. He's a retired Navy seal and he had a guy named Tyler on his show Tyler Gray and Tyler Tyler is a medically retired Delta Force operator right?

And Tyler talks about doing the grief or covering method and how much it helped him after he was he was blown up in an apartment somewhere in Baghdad. You know and he has his career ending injury to his arm right? And you know I met Tyler a couple of years after this as he's he's just trying to navigate being a civilian you know going from basically the NFL of the military and all the hope streams and expectations that we're going to come with having a long career in this unit that is almost impossible to get in right? To having to medically retire and figure out how to be a civilian right?

And my heart just broke for this guy when I met him you know and and so I we we basically offered him a spot in one of our certification trainings you know this is this is 10 years ago or more. And anyway 10 years later I'm just watching this Sean Ryan podcast and he talks about the grief or covering method and how beneficial it was and you know kind of one of the things that he learned from this program was that he was like you know they do this thing over there and they really show you that like I don't need to compare my loss to your loss right? Like my loss hurts and your loss hurts and you know and I was like go Tyler you know and he's just he's just he's just telling the truth right? And I'm like there it is right?

I'm just like got it look we got we got a tier one Delta operator vouching for the work surely men will know that it's okay to do this work now right? And it's like there's still there's still roadblocks and there's still doors being shut and there's you know and and it's just it's it's frustrating right? I'm sure you're getting that from me just because I'm like I have seen so many like guy guy alpha guys set themselves free of past hurt be able to show up in a different way for their family be able to show up a different way for them like avoid the alcoholism or correct the alcohol avoid the suicide you know and it's like so anyway you know I know this is kind of turning into well I'm excited I wrote an article called Why leaders must have a grief lens to you know have a better morale and their squadron or I wrote some for their troops and so it was submitted and they accepted it for publication so it will be in the Marine Corps well that's amazing sent to all Marines who have a subscription to that magazine so it hasn't published yet but I will the next couple will by the way for if you're listening we'll we'll we'll put that in the show notes so Tara just get me that link and I'd love to promote that article that's great that's a huge step for that team of being knowledge is something that wouldn't make you know publication you know as we were talking I was thinking the other day my husband's like you have to get um battle battle pressure and I said battle pressure what's battle pressure like oh that's what they call acupuncture or I don't know I don't know what they call it but they make up names for things that might be woo woo or whatever right I got you so they put the word battle in front of it so it's like so what you're saying is if I want to get the grief recovery method into like all active dude any call it like battle method like we need to come up with like macho sexy name you know the notebook yeah so I'm you know you know it's like I just I thought was funny but also like why do we have to rebrand acupuncture like why is that right right that just that that is incredible that's incredible I didn't know that yeah but no I mean if that makes sense and you know and again like we're we're exploring all options like if I have to have a separate branding to help men I will do it because you know again like I want to help veterans and my father was a veteran and I they're near dear to my heart um and also I lost three of my like friends over the last three years I've lost three men to suicide you know I've I've had three of my friends kill themselves and you know again we're struggling we're struggling as a people we're struggling as women we're struggling as men and I just I think this is such a beautiful tool because it really it really looks and feels different depending on the individual doing it but I wish we are like we feel completion yeah I wish it was part of my high school life skills class before graduation from high school everyone goes through this program um or at least have it part of the recruitment process for a military um but I think if we can get some completion around those past expectations that weren't met or where we thought life might be like we would be so much better equipped to really thrive yeah in the military and as a young adult I mean being in our 20s socks especially the long like the harder life is now and I again we might be talking about emotions but we're not we're identifying them maybe like the world's gotten better with talking about it I think for this younger generation but there's there's not completion around it so like right yep we're getting there but it's not quite helpful if anything it's more I don't know I don't want to get too much into that but yeah it's it's interesting right because my my take on that is it's almost a little bit misleading because again let's say that on average our society 40 years ago just didn't talk about feelings much at all right and now we're talking about feelings more which again I'm gonna say is a good thing but then again a lot the I think the pitfall in that is a lot of people feel like they have resolved completed or dealt with their feelings simply by talking about their feelings or their emotion justify shitty behavior like is it just yeah that's a I think that's a whole let's yeah that's a whole another topic we can get into you know yeah so so it's it's just like I'm I'm always again when I when I do my scroll just because our Instagram account I see a lot of people who are in the grief space but I see a lot of people who are in the mental health space and and again the whole scroll is like feelings are okay and I'm like great comma there's more and then we got to find a way to resolve those feelings yeah unless we want to keep them like the happy feelings I have around my dad I want to keep them okay but the sad or the painful events that you know that hurt from my relationship with my dad I want to complete those right I don't want to harbor those I don't want those to pop up when I'm getting ready to punish my son right I don't want to not have options on how I'm going to parent because I'm unfinished with the way my my dad parented right or you know those kind of things like those things need to be resolved otherwise I'm carrying those yeah and the intensity that's what that's what's no one yeah it's a little stay safe right because like a memory doesn't go away we don't do a brainwash like I want people to know that the grief recovery program isn't this brainwash and you're gonna lose all these memories when you do this program if anything you get like this empowering clarity on the memory like it's like this it's empowering not a brainwash right just they'll go away yeah right nor and now it's so great you bring that up because I'm I'm thinking just because I'm weird I'm thinking about crazy stuff right like I guarantee you our boy Elon at some point what there's neuro link is gonna be like hey for 595 per month you can delete those those memories right like that's like guys that's where we're headed right and I don't want any of that no even my most painful memories that I have in my past that's part of my life that's part of my journey as a human being on this planet right um but it is different to go to that memory and have it feel very unfinished and very painful or go to that memory and have it feel like a sad part of my story and then be able to shift shift off of it there's a different feeling and you really can't understand what that means until you've done this work you know don't know how that memory isn't actually a memory but it's something that affects just you living as an adult like as an adult when I first started my private practice if other people charge a hundred fifty dollars an hour I'd charge 60 to 70 right and someone asked me like what's that about so I did I looked at my deep dive and I'm looking at I'm like oh you know memories around money or you know and I I remember my grandparents would give us money and then my stepmom would come by and just take it from us and so it was like I wasn't that memory came up and I was like I wasn't deserving of what other people got or it's like my sibling hurt kids got happy meals I got the burger okay so there was this like my kids get more you get less and yeah she's saying you're less than she didn't say you're unworthy but that's what I interpreted from the way that it was one of the every other weekend that we went there my twin sister and I just like we just didn't get as much we didn't have a you know the same bed to sleep on and that type of thing so when I became an adult I'm like oh I've worked through that and the big losses and that but like actually those you know intangible losses of support identity safety you know that that was affecting how I was interacting with the world and my business to help people to go look at memories right so I was like you need to complete that so then I could be the best version of myself and really help people without it coming from these unidentified wounds because even that's a fact.

So let's do this if we can I'm gonna I want to wrap episode one because we're kind of at the hour mark but I want to have you on for episode two on on this topic specifically so really really quickly number one I want to thank you it's been absolutely a pleasure having you on Terra I want to thank you just on behalf of our organization you have helped so many people with these tools you and you do embody this work and I just want to say thank you you know where can people if they want to work with you where can they find you like just let us know our viewers can find you. Well I think probably the best avenue would be Instagram because I am in Europe and the time difference it's really limited my ability to do one-on-one work but I'm deeply compassionate about making sure people get access to resources and things like that so probably Instagram which I think my handle is unapologetic griever.

Okay. Instagram is that handle or Terra Storm on although that's more personal and there's lots of just photos of me on the beach living my best life and the poor people. That's fine. All right and well perfect so they can find you on Instagram and also we're going to link to that article that you we referenced earlier yeah so get get that to us and and again and thanks for listening everyone that that's listening make sure please that you like and subscribe to this podcast and to make sure that we get found found by other people please leave a review so please go to Apple podcast or Spotify or YouTube and wherever you listen to this podcast please go to their like review function and give us a five-star review and that'll help us get found by my more people so I want to thank you guys for listening again Terra I want to thank you for being on and look look out for part two with Terra and I and we're going to get into intangible losses and some other really incredible stuff.