What Japan Taught Us About Grief // Why No One Talks About Grief in Japan – Until Now

I'm still American certified public accountant. That was my previous career for over 20 years. And you know, with what happened in my life, I started my interest in how people's mind and heart function works. And I had a great grief, but I started out as a hyponotherapist.

So it's a very strange way how I got led to a grief recovery, but in the school, it features in San Francisco. And then I met this American and the Sherman. But he was a grief recovery specialist as well. So I didn't know nothing about grief recovery first, but at that time my grief was my brother's brain tumor.

My parents were gone. He was the only family member. You know, I had left and I had my, I mean, of course, I had my husband and my children, but you know, nobody could help me. Nobody could save the pain I had in me.

And I always had a really good, you know, we were almost like twins. He was two years younger. But I trusted him all the time and just a fear of I might lose him. That just really sucked up my life.

And I pretended I was okay. And you know, every day, day goes by, but this, you know, pain in me was just unbearable. But I, you know, I just felt that there's nothing I can do about it. You know, it's his illness, right?

I'm not brain surgeon. I'm powerless, you know, this. So, so, but so I was working with my, so I retired with, you know, things were happening. And then then I stepped into the Cihipanotherapy profession and then I met this Indian shaman.

And then the five years passed, I, you know, met the, I met again the same Indian shaman, the American. And I just need, I was searching, I was just searching to do something about this pain. You know, I tried a lot of things, lots of different things, right? This and that.

The people of therapy was the one and Indian shaman is, I mean, this spiritual things, a hussey and I mean, everything, Chinese away, a European way. But I just had, you know, I mean, the thing was just there, you know, I mean, I couldn't do anything about it. And then 2015, I read Matt with this, with the same, the same, Indian shaman. And so I visited him and just to study.

But the purpose was not because of my brother's grief. Purpose was for one of my clients. Then, then when I went there, he said, okay, we're going to start, you know, studying about Indian shaman. But first of all, you have to do grief recovery.

So I said, what? You know, I didn't pay money to do something I've never heard of, right? And he gave me the book and he said, you know, just read it. And then he told me to, you know, pick the grief, right?

And so I said, grief, you know, what is that? Right? You know, I just was looking for the information about, you know, to help, how I can help my client at the time. And so I just had to dig.

I said, okay, all right, whatever, you know, like my brother, my brother's brain tumor. What can you do about it? You know, it's only a physician doctor can do something about it, you know what I mean? But so I just picked, right?

And he's an elderly specialist. I think he's one of your very first students. He's almost eight years old. But anyway, so it was just three days, right?

Like a grief recovery. So I said, what can you do in three days, right? But so I went through the program, you know, it's almost like one-on-one. And that the grief went away, you know, I was at peace.

I was at peace with my brother's condition, situation. It just, you know, so it was just really amazing experience. I said, how did that happen? Because it was a, it was kind of a simple step.

I was just following, following, doing what he was telling me to do. So I was just kind of reluctantly doing, okay, all right? So I did this now, now, okay, now he's doing okay, do this next. So I did the next and so I said, okay, all right, I did that.

And I was crying all the way through. So I said, does this all have a meaning, you know? But then at the end, you know, it just disappeared. You know, it just went away.

I was at ease and so I said, oh my gosh, you know, what in the heck is this? So that's where I stepped in. But then I've never thought I was kind of committed to being a therapist and then this shamanic way of living was very inspirational. It was very helpful.

So I was with that. Then the pandemic hit, right? And my brothers was still struggling with the brain tumor. And so I decided to come back to Japan.

I told my husband, I just have to, you know, I just have to go. Because, you know, it was scary, wasn't it? Every country locked itself down. Oh, absolutely, very scary.

Right. So I thought, maybe I, you know, I might never see him again, right? That kind of fear. So so I told my husband, I'm sorry, I have to go.

You know, I just cannot live with that grief of not being with him at the last moment, right? So I came back to Japan and then I spent time with him. He passed away two years ago. At two, sounds like 23.

But I spent it. I wanted to spend time with him and then. So I was here. But then at the same time, I thought, what are you know, what am I going to do?

Just sitting around and then. So I decided to start the company with my previous client. So that's the recovery. And that the client, my former client, now she's my partner is that I helped her from recovering from a code dependency.

And probably many people know there like a quarter, like a 12 steps, you know, how people to help people recover from code dependence. So I met her. I helped her and then she recovered from from my heavy code dependency. But then when we are starting out the business, there's this unique feature of a Japanese culture.

Yeah, so I just want to ask you, what is your impression of Japan or Japanese people? Oh, well, let me let me start by with a caveat of I've never been to Japan, right? And so I think my very, very kind of removed take on Japanese culture would be that there is there is, well, let's see, there's a lot of ways I could go here. In terms of grief recovery, would you like me to give my take there?

Sure. Sure. So I think if I again, not working in Japan myself with with anyone in grief recovery, I would assume that if I went there, it would be hard in that culture to openly and honestly speak about emotions right off the bat. So I would just assume it would take me a little bit longer to get to a place where people felt safe enough, maybe and also safe enough in a group of other people to show emotions to openly, you know, have emotion, tears, those kind of things.

I would imagine it would be harder for me to do this work in Japan versus if I was doing it in California. That would be kind of my first assumption. Yeah. So I think probably many, it was a nice great, you know, a description many people kind of speak about Japan.

Japan is very clean or people are very calm, you know, like a harmonious society. You know, they are all this, how do you say it, that quietness I think in the country, this country asks for the quietness, yeah? Yes. Yeah.

Confirmity, harmony, you know, not the chaos. Chaos is bad, right? Harmony is good. Right.

So that's that the bottom, you know, bottom value system of Japan, you know, they are several. So what means if a person shows that emotion, it breaks the harmony, it breaks the quietness. Yeah. Right?

So, and if you show your anger, if you show your sadness, tearing or sorrow, it just creates people, you know, it just makes people feel uneasy. Right. Yes. You know, see, see, see someone who is expressing emotion.

So that's the, that the culture, bottom, bottom culture, value system that the people grow up in. So, people endure everything. People quite endure everything trying to become and, you know, trying to be... And suppress, suppress those feelings.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, endure. Yeah.

And then when people, yeah, go ahead. No, please, please go ahead. So when people show emotion, it's just a really bad thing. It's like, oh my gosh, you know, she is not in control of herself.

And, or that he is not in control. And then some like culture, men supposed to be tough, right? And very strong that, you know, endure and not show any emotion, right? And the woman, you know, asked for the kindness.

So all this is just, it's beautiful. You know, it is beautiful if it's real. But, you know, it's just on the... But people pay a very high price for it.

It means, you know, from the childhood, you know, people... Or they just have to really push down, put down and content. Their personal individuality. Yes.

You know, the individual emotions. So that is very... So many questions. Is that...

Is it appropriate? Is it okay to talk about emotion? So in the Japanese language, we have a lot of names for the colors. We have lots of names for that.

For example, rain. Rain has lots of names. But comes the emotion. Our vocabulary is very few.

Very few vocabulary, explaining different type of emotion. So, yeah, so it's a big challenge. But that's why, especially why, that we just need a green-free method to... Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's very fascinating, Wakaba. Thank you for that. And, you know, I know initially, my dad, when he first started working on this method, he just assumed that all cultures, but Western culture, knew how to grieve and process grief, right?

That was his assumption. And so he wrote the book in English and just, you know, set out to help change the United States. And at the time, you know, in the 70s and 80s, you were just a couple of generations removed from, you know, different cultures from Europe coming, very stoic, Midwestern farmers coming from Germany and, you know, and different parts of Europe. Much closer to death still, much closer to tragic historic events from their lives.

So it was a very, again, it was very repressed culture as well. But he figured somehow everyone else knew how to, how to grieve and complete what was unfinished emotionally. And, you know, again, you know this story, but for those that are listening, what we found was he and Russell Friedman and others kept being invited to different parts of the globe to talk to different cultures, different groups of people from all over. And we could talk about the myths about grief that we talk about, right?

Don't feel bad, replace the loss, be strong, time heals, you know, keep busy, all these kind of things we teach on here in the US. And people were nodding and agreeing in other places, right? So, you know, through looking at it through that lens, right? Like you mentioned, the men in that culture, very, very much, you know, like you said, are taught to be strong.

It's, and I heard you in the, kind of, for the women in that culture, don't rock the boat, you know, stay in this one lane. And, you know, and be harmonious. And if you, I would assume, right? And if you can't, you got to go hide somewhere and grieve alone because we can't, we can't see it as a group, right?

And it's like, and if I go to the United Kingdom, right? What I notice is when I'm working with people in Great Britain, right? They went when the pressure builds emotionally, they want to go to humor first. That is there, that is their thing.

They want to cover it with a witty remark or a joke and kind of pass by it with laughter, right? And then again, I want to learn more about in Japan, what do people do, right? Like, you know, but again, this is such a fascinating topic and we're so proud of the fact that that book, that we, when we initially wrote it, thought it was just an English speaking problem. The books in 27 languages, and we can't translate it quickly enough to help people all over the world.

And so we do, I know that like when we, when we look at all these different cultures, and we look at cultures other than the one we grew up with, you know, we see, we can easily kind of see differences. But I think that the unifying thing that I love about grief recovery is the similarities, right? They don't feel bad, the be strong, because even if you go here to where I live in Idaho, right? There is a Western cowboy type culture, right?

And so all of my boys by society will be taught, again, similar to probably the manager pan. Don't show emotions, you got to be strong, you can't ever cry, you got to be tough, you know, and into varying degrees, you know, women are being taught similar. So again, I think that the thing that I love about grief recovery, and I'm sure you've, you've felt this too, is you can be in a group of, in a room with 20 people, from all different cultures, male, female, different religions, different cultures, and by day two, we can all just be a family. And we can all just share in the similarities, and the fact that we're all there with broken hearts, and we're going to all support each other.

And so that's what I love about this work, is I haven't found anything really as impactful at bringing people together as quickly as grief recovery. So I just wanted to touch on that. But getting back with Kaba to what you mentioned, right? Just in terms of, I think this is so fascinating.

What type of people in Japan are you attracting with this grief recovery method? Is it people that are just more open to try new things? Have you got people that are very traditionally in Japan, and also people that are kind of more open to this? Is it a mixture?

I mean, who, who, how do you, I guess my question is, is how do you bring in and kind of pioneer this new thing that is unknown in a country? Like you said, that has such a strong culture to kind of don't rock the boat and stay right here. You know, I can't imagine how tricky or difficult that can be to bring this to that. You know, how has it been for you and how are you succeeding and what's working and what's not?

We mentioned, okay. So we started the company in 2009, and I started my partner and I started the company in 2020. 2020, so it's past four years, we're on the fifth year. We were just really, you know, we tried everything. Unfortunately, with my background and how background, you know, we built our own personal wealth, right?

Then the money I can use freely, I don't have to ask my husband or she the same thing. So, so we just invested a lot of money on like marketing, you know, how can we send out this, you know, this important message to this Japanese society? So we tried everything, but right now we are, we are sold, sold in using Instagram. Also, yeah, so we use Instagram.

We actually have a three different accounts for different services because we use four different services to help people rebuild. So we have one account is for the grief recovery, because we want to kind of, we don't want to mix it up, you know, like you recommend, you know, you recommend, because each method has its own power on strengths. So, so one of the account is a grief recovery method account. That's a part, you know, and then we have another two more accounts.

And so we do live almost every day, pretty much every day, actually every day. And someday, three times a day, some day, two twice a day, sometimes four times a day, you know, all right, and we kind of switch and morning night. We want people, we don't want people to be alone, you know, sitting in the room or by herself. And, um, um, demographically, I think that the population, the people who are taking a grief, step into grief recovery are the people who are in, like, in the 50s.

The, the pretty much, yeah. 99% women. 90% women, okay. Yeah. And I think I'd say we have about 80% women. So fairly similar kind of demo.

Not really. After 99% women. Oh, 99, I'm just, okay. Right.

Yeah. And so just so you know, probably in the states, I would guess around 80, we don't have perfect numbers, but it's definitely, it doesn't skew that far. But it's definitely still very hard to challenging to get men to do this at the, at the numbers that women are willing to do it. So that's interesting.

And then, um, and in terms of the people coming to you for grief work, uh, are they, are they coming to you mostly around, um, the death of someone that, that they love or is it, is, are they kind of understanding that grief can be more than just death? Are they coming to work on other losses other than someone who's died? Yeah. Yeah.

That's why we're trying to promote. We speak about, yeah. We said to, in order, you know, everybody wants to be happy, right? I mean, we all want, you know, just being happy self and the happy life.

So we said, you know, how can you do that if you are carrying this huge pain in your heart? I mean, how it's impossible? How can you talk about happiness while you are suffering? Right?

So we said, um, so we said, let's, you know, let's, uh, let go of this, um, that, that deep pains and deeper. So people have lots of issues, but not lots of people that got the bottom of their life, you know, with their children, uh, they have a relationship issue with their children, they have a relationship issue with their husband, they were divorced, they got remarried, but it's not working out. Uh, people got ill, you know, they in the, the house, um, um, they feel unworthy of themselves. Um, it, it's just really a people who are going through, um, they're feeling very alone and, uh, very feeling, um, unworthiness, hitting the bottom pretty much.

I mean, and the men in people are taking them medications, um, because they cannot sleep, um, they, they cannot, they cannot think clearly. Um, uh, they have just eating, you know, this order, it's, it's just a complete chaos of themselves. But so we do Instagram live three times for them. So they will say, you know, we are here, you know, let's, you know, let's spend time.

So then we talk about lots of different issues, different pains and, and we just trying to encourage people that you're the only person can save yourself and save your life. That I, we are not doing that. We are just sharing how to do it. So you will learn, you know, you can take care of yourself, you know, from going on, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, the good for you guys.

That's incredible, um, and inspiring. Um, and let me ask you this, Okaba, in terms of, I touched on this at the, at the beginning of the interview, but one of the things that our team in the States is so, um, grateful for is, is the, the, the level of, um, training and professionalism that you, that's you bring to this with your team, right? So you have, you have sent numerous people, uh, to get certified with the institute, right? And then, um, and then you guys have kind of a peer support, uh, network almost where, where you have new specialist mentor with other people watching them do the method, right?

And then they only, I believe only start working with people when they're at a very high level in terms of training. The vice president of our, our institute at Owens mentioned, you know, a lot of your specialists are, are some of the most highly trained specialists, there are on the planet when they actually start working with clients on the ground. So can you talk a little bit about that system that you have in terms of training your team to help people and, and what you guys do? Because we're, we're very impressed by that here.

Um, how I feel, I mean, this is from my personal experience and how I helped, um, the people is that, I kind of talk about like people about tour guide, you know, like a tour guide. Okay, if you hire tour guide, you pay money, right? So let's say I hire the tour guide, uh, to, to visit Idaho, right? I'm not going to hire someone who has never been to Idaho.

I mean, I will hire someone who has been to Idaho many, many times, uh, you know, knows where it's at and, you know, have the 100%, you know, confidence and, right? So for me, my belief is that how can anybody can read someone to, you know, to get out of the grief and, you know, to find this piece of a happiness, piece of this content, piece of this, uh, you know, peacefulness in each day without grief, right? So, um, so we only support people who has, you know, went through our method, not just a grief recovery because most lots of people are called dependent. So they have to get out of the code dependent, you know, people ask for people's approvals and they, they're so worried about what people think of, you know, of them or how they've been judged.

So, so, so we trained and most people go through, you know, grief recovery at least twice. Many people go through three times, four times, right? And then, then we have other programs that, that they go through. So once they go through, um, I just asked them, I think it's now your turn to help someone, you know, and then most people have a financial issues, you know, they go through the divorce or they have this dependency issue, you know, previously dependency issue, they have like debts, right?

So, um, so just, uh, learning this skill of grief recovery and then they know there's just millions of people, you know, hundreds and thousands of people just living with a huge grief, right? So they know that, you know, this method is needed in the society. You know, people really need to find out, people need to know. So we, so we asked them, there's so much that I and my partner can do, you know, two of us, you know, there's a limit to it.

So, so we just want to multiply the specialists, you know, people who are very competent and then they have experienced that, you know, things will turn around that we can rebuild our life. You know, so people can say, 100% confidence that, yes, grief recovery method works because that's how I got out from that, you know, this huge pain. So, so then we invite this, we sponsor and we invite this, our students, our clients that want you to be interested to become a specialist and then we will support you, we will sponsor you and, uh, and then we tell them that you should build experience within our program for four times, you know, experience being a specialist so you can build your confidence because this, you know, most of the women, the many of them are housewives, they didn't have a profession, you know, with them or some of them they do.

But, um, so their self-esteem or self-confidence is kind of very long that, um, they never believed they have the power to help someone. So, um, so those are the people, you know, came from that background. But so they want to, they want to be useful in their life, so they will have, so they can say, if they can, you know, help and support someone, stranger, one or two person, three person, four to get out from that deep grief because they know that deep grief, you know, how painful it is and how that can screw your life, you know, they, they live through that. Yeah, so that's why I think they're very serious and they're very sincere, they're very honest and they just want to, um, they want to do that for themselves and they also want to do that for, you know, many strangers who are in this, you know, great deep grief.

Yeah, yeah, wow, that, that is, um, that's, that is powerful. Again, like we've talked about as well, it's very, very helpful for you to do multiple different losses from your life and every one of those losses and every, every, every feeling you have from the grief recovery method completion work, doesn't still confidence. Again, helps you personally instills confidence in you approaching other people and offering these services, so that is smart to have people doing multiple losses, you know, in the safety of your guys work to, to be for, they go out there and help others. Now in terms of the way that people are approaching this work, do you guys do more groups or do you do one more, one more one on ones?

Is, is that, does that different from, you know, American culture? I, I'm just kind of curious, you know, how do people do the work there? Because we do everything online. You know, because where I live, I live in Nagano, right now I'm living in Nagano and my partner lives in Hokkaido and, and you know, so I think I believe in Japan with active license, there was like a since until last year, there were only three of us, you know, her, me, and one of our staff member, that because she speaks English, so we encourage her.

Can you get the certification and, you know, so three of us, you know, we can just kind of start, right? Yeah, so now we have, last year, the new day, nine people got certified, so I think they're only totally 12, but this year, nine again, so every year, you know, we'll add up nine people, but, so, so very few of us, so we have to do it and then after that, because of the location where we live, so we do everything online and it's group. And but rarely, you know, in the, the price, financial burden too, because many people who are in a deep grief, lots of them have financial issues as well. Right.

So we want to provide the service, of course, not fee, but, you know, as, you know, they can afford and so, so group, you know, group is the most efficient, we can do that, and then it's online. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

No, that's great. And in terms of the group work, again, we talked earlier about a culture that is very much, we can't show emotions, especially big emotions. That's just not something that the culture will, you know, will allow. How, how are you accomplishing that, you know, are you just trusting in the method to kind of cut through that?

I mean, it, it, I'm assuming, because for those that listen that aren't familiar with our work, there are a format that we follow in the groups. There's formats that we follow one on one. And in the format, you know, again, we do a lot of education around not comparing losses, not comparing our loss to others, not saying I know how you feel because that robs people of the dignity of how they feel. You know, so there's a lot of built in safety to, to kind of gel a group very quickly into not comparing, but just rooting for each other.

But again, like you touched on them, I'm very curious in terms of Japan with the group, is there, is there stuff that you've navigated that differs from if I were to lead a group, you know, in the US, or are people, once they feel safe enough to do this work and open up emotionally, can't, are they opening up kind of at the same pace that you've seen groups in the US, or how does that differ? Um, let Western culture, you know, encourages, I mean, well, at least it's more emotion is, it's more permitted, more allowed. And, you know, we don't even do a physical touch, we don't do any hugs in our culture, we don't even have a hand shake, we don't even have hugs, right? So it's no physical touch, right?

So how can people really sense and feel this compassion or love or caring over others, right? So people both carry this, you know, a loneliness, you know, very, very deep. But anyway, so Instagram right now is really helping for us to do the live on the same time, same day, morning time, lunch time, dinner time. So we build a, you know, lapo, you know, we try to build a rapport with the followers, so that they can trust us and we promise them, you know, we can help you, we needy, you know, 100%.

You know, you know, we will hold your hand and then we're not going to let go. So let's try it, let's, you know, let's step into it. So it's start with trust, you know, and 99% of our clients come from the Instagram. So, they, they know us, you know, my personality, yeah, I ask personality and we will support you.

So that's, you know, let's step into it. And but we tell them it's not easy, you know, because we are talking about emotion, we are talking about something that you felt guilty of feeling it for all these years, you know, feeling emotion, showing emotion, expressing emotion, it's about thing. And so they've been really, you know, harsh to themselves, right? So, but we, so we, we go through the method, but then the timing of when we introduce.

So we kind of step into that grief history right away from the day one. That and then there's a danger with the Japanese, because we only have like we, we go by the nine sessions instead of eight. So we go by the nine sessions, but in order to finish it up, even within that eight or nine session, people has to open the emotion as quickly as possible, even though it might be painful. So on the day, and then we don't want to do too much lecture from the beginning, because Japanese people are so good with using left brain, you know, they're trying to use their head.

No, they're hard, right? So we have to kind of, you know, start early. So loss history. So they have to, you know, remember, and it's hard, it's harsh, but then at the same time, we have people who went through this self-help for recover.

So I asked them on the Instagram, because it's difficult for us to support everybody every moment and everybody's every moment. You know, everything so much happens each day, right? Like their child said this and husband said that. And so we just asked them to connect with each other, you know, and help each other, you know, support each other.

So, so let's, you know, let's go through with everybody, right? You know, so not just specialists, because I cannot carry such a huge burden by myself. So we asked people who have, you know, tried the grief recovery once or twice, and they're still on the Instagram, you know, just keeping in touch, staying on the line, right? So we just asked them, then there, that, you know, connect with each other and, you know, here, you know, just see how people are doing and how people are feeding and, you know, just show caring, because people have such a warm heart, you know, people care, right?

So just use your caring power to, you know, care about others' grief and the sorrows. And so that's how we kind of drag everybody all of them for three months. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that's excellent.

Yeah, I'm just, I would love, well, at some point I have to get out there to Japan and visit you and see all the great stuff you're doing. It's been a dream of mine for a while. I've always wanted to visit Japan and now I have a reason because I have friends there. So I can't wait.

I think it's wonderful what you guys are doing. Again, right? I would love to reach more men as well, both here in the States and there in Japan, as we all know, men grieve and need this work just as much as women do. Have you found any, you said like you said, 99%.

So you have worked with a man here or there. How did that go? Did they, did they get benefit from the program? Oh, yes.

Yeah, did it work out for them too? Yeah, and yes, great. One person, the first male person, it was my brother. Okay, my brother.

Yeah, you know, he was always a happy, happy person. Very strong, very loving. But, you know, we grew up in the family that sometimes something happens to the boy, something, you know, girls' garrison experience. But, you know, I watched with my brother, his relationship with my father and my father was very harsh on him, you know, that I protested that I fought with my father, you know, his unfairness and his, you know, but anyway, so before he was, he had only very little time left, you know, before his death, but I kind of begged him, I usually don't, but I begged him, please, please, please express grief recovery.

You carry out the grief with my parents. So he said, I don't have any grief. I love my, I love my dad, I love my mom, and I don't want to talk about someone who is dead, right? I don't want to bump mouth.

I don't want to talk about something negative about my parents. I love them. So he said, yeah, I know, but, but I see you still, you know, you carry this anger, you know, sometimes pops out, right? So I said, please, please, that's my last wish.

That's my last wish, why you're still, you know, yes, so he was kind of reluctant, but then, but he went through for me, after he went through, he was at peace. So when he was going, when he was leaving this world, and you know, for last six months, after he completed the grief with our parents, mother and father, and I don't think he did it for me, but with me, but because I asked my partner, I had to, to help, my brother's grief. And his wife, his two children, he completed that before he went, and he was at peace. The God asked six months of his life.

I saw this complete calmness with him and he didn't have to struggle anymore with his, this pain that was a hidden before. So, so that was that. And then, so we, so we use my brother's experience, I'm pretty sure he's saying okay in heaven. So, or not Instagram, you know, like the how, his relationship with his father and the mother, and this is a man with his wife and so for someone who read my, my brother's testimonial, the story.

Then one man stepped in, he was at the verge of divorce and he did not want to lose his, his family. He walked so hard, but he had no idea why his wife is saying that she wants to get divorced, he had children, right? So, he realized that he thought everything was going well, everything was fine. I mean, he was working so hard, bringing the money to the family, feeding the family.

He thought he was doing what, you know, so, so this is a very gentleman who has a great courage. He bought the book and then he said he's going to do it himself. I think he was embarrassed, you know, I mean, he was kind of shy, right? Yeah.

So, he said he did it by himself on the book, but he, but he was frustrated. He said, he wasn't sure if he was doing it right or not. And so, so he joined the, he joined our course and he joined the group. And now he's the greatest supporter.

He is always kind of saying great recovery is your ability should experience it and because I was saved. So, he could save his marriage. You know, things are not totally smooth yet, but he's okay, you know, he's not, he doesn't have this. He understands his wife, he understands his children where they are, they're not taking the way for you.

So, but, you know, he's taking, he's accepting it and he, you know, he didn't lose that very important, you know, piece of his life. So, yeah, yeah. And then another gentleman. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, I was just going to add to that, you know, one of the things as a man and as a father and husband, I'm grateful for is I had the opportunity to do work on my father. I've grafted my father, I've written a letter to my father. And I've grafted other people in my life, other men in my life.

And it really does give you more perspective on those around you, right? Like now, as a father, I view, for better or worse, a lot of the time I know, you know, or hope that one day, my, my sons, my daughter, my wife, they'll all do relationship grafts on me, right? And it allows you, again, we can't ever understand or know how other people's feel or their perception of us. But we sure can become more aware that there are other, you know, I guess I could be, I became more empathetic and more understanding to the feelings others may have just by look, but again, the simple, like you said, at the very beginning of the interview, it's like, how did this stuff work?

It seems so simple. And it is simple, but that's the beauty of it too, right? Is that simplicity? And so, anyway, I can relate to that gentleman doing the work to save his marriage where he didn't even know that there was a problem there, right?

But once you get into the work, maybe you see your wife's perspective more or your kid's perspective more, you know? And so anyway, I love that he had the courage to do that, you know? So, now that's great. Yeah, so I'm just so amazed that the work, your dad and Mr.

Russell, you know, created, there must be super intelligent, you know, people, super analytical and super compassionate. They must have a huge big heart in order to create this method. I know it's a long path, you know, long passage and I think it's still, you know, kind of developing, but growing, but every time I do it, it's just perfect, you know? This method is, it's just a perfection of any kind of grief, you know, all and every kind of grief that the people can unload, you know, from them.

So, so I'm just very honored and I feel myself so lucky, you know, coming class meeting this method. Yeah, no, we, you know, it was always really, and thank you for the kind words about my father and about Russell. I hear you and I appreciate that and that, and that's all accurate. They were very compassionate, very smart and they had, it's seemingly unlimited energy to bring grief recovery to the world.

And, and I, you know, and I hope I take a little bit of on, carry on a little bit of what they did, but I remember how excited they were every time we had an opportunity to work with a new group of people or a new, you know, part of the world or translate the book. I mean, they were, they were just as excited helping some, somebody in Spain as they were helping someone in the US, right? They really, like we all just wanted to help people that were struggling with grief. That's the only qualifier you need to, to, for us to want to help you, you know, and so that's why Wakaba, we, we just think so fondly of you and your organization and IA and just, you know, and, and again, for all of those who are listening, you know, they're in Japan, you, you're a part of a historic movement.

I mean, you guys are bringing this to Japan, right? And so we can't thank you enough. Everyone that is, is bringing the grief recovery method to people out there. It's just a, it's a historic, amazing thing you're doing and kind of like what you said, I, it never ceases to amaze me time and time again how this method works for anyone willing and, and wanting to do that work, right?

And I think our greatest challenge is a lot of people out there. I would say the majority of people out there don't think they, they would benefit from grief recovery work. Right. And that is absolutely false.

If you are listening to this podcast, you would benefit from grief recovery work. In other words, you don't need a, a loss three months ago to qualify for this work. We are all carrying a lifetime worth of grief. And you may say, Oh, I don't have grief, but listen to Wakaba's story.

She would not have classified her, her, brother, you know, with brain cancer as a, as a, as grieving. She didn't think she was, right? It wasn't until that gentleman said, no, you just got to do the grief recovery before we can do this other work. And it changed the whole course of her life.

And that happened with me too, honestly. I thought I was, I was in a whole different career. And then finally, one loss kind of affected me enough for me to go check out this work. Well, I had, I still had 20 years of grief before that.

My dad invented this whole method. And I still didn't think it qualified for me. That's that's how insidious this is, right? It's like unresolved grief affects us all.

And, you know, and again, I just want to thank you for, for making a difference in, in, in, in your part of the world, you know, and so before we close, because we're, we're at 50 minutes right now, um, can you let us know again, if people want to work with you and your organization, can you, can you kind of let us know your website and, and the Instagram and kind of, however you want people to find you, we'd love for you to just to get and promote them the amazing work you're doing. Oh, thank you so much, Carl. Our company name is what recovery Inc. And our homepage is wh8t.

What are 119.com? So wh8.org 119.com. But, okay. Yeah, so we, we provide for services.

That's what it shows. But many people say, which, you know, which service should I start first? And we always say, well, I think grief recovery, that's what we recommend. Because, um, when people afford emotions, they cannot think straight.

So we have other method, you know, but usually it doesn't really, um, it asks for more straight thinking, you know, like a learning, studying. But if you're in the chaos, you know, like you cannot read this now movement, right? When you're on the grief, you know, when you're in the pain with what happened, you know, like last year, 10 years ago. So if you really want to read now, you know, this movement fully and completely, this life, you know, you have to, you know, you have to take care of that this past stuff, this huge baggage, you know, if you don't do that, you just cannot leave the future or you cannot even leave now.

So, Kau, you know, thank you so much for inviting me and I will be looking forward to seeing you in Japan. You can't, you know, please come to Japan and I will travel. Yeah. Oh, I would love to.

I also want to bring my snowboard too, because I hear the snowboarding is very good there. But seriously, I want to, I would love to come out there and see all the work you're doing and again, support it you in any way that we can. And again, just know that that our whole team is so impressed with what you guys are doing. The level of care that you have for this method, we couldn't ask for anything more.

And, you know, again, thank you, thank you, thank you. We're so grateful that you're representing us there in Japan. And thank you for your honesty on this podcast and telling us a little bit about you and your heart too and that courage. And again, if anyone out there is listening and you would want to work with Wakaba, just look in the show description and we'll put the link to your website there Wakabi and you can also, you know, find her on Instagram and their team and participate.

Again, you will not regret doing this work and I guarantee you you will not find a warmer group of people who just again want to support you and help you navigate whatever challenging emotional things you are navigating. And I love what you said in the start Wakaba. You would not hire a tour guide unless they were very familiar with that, you know, tour that you're about to go on. And as weird as it sounds, unresolved grief, you know, you got to walk through it.

But there are people that will help help you guide you through that, right? And again, you are in good hands with Wakaba and her team. I know because we have trained them and I know what kind of care they put into the people that you'll be working with. So, Wakaba, I would love to have you on again.

So please, you know, join us again on this podcast. But until then, listeners, thank you for listening. Have a great rest of your day and thank you for listening to the Field Free Again podcast. Thank you so much.