Why You Can’t Think Your Way Out of Grief | Healing the Heart, Not Just the Mind with Andrea Szegedi

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So my first question to you is Andrea, how do you find the grief recovery method?

How did you get into this work and you know, that sort of thing? Yes. Well, first of all, I'm really happy that we can talk the language of grief. I do talk other languages as well, not just one.

But I consider grief as a language. And in my life, in the field of grief, I would quote from Mark Twain, he said that there are two very important days in our lives. One is when we are born and the other when we find out why. The loss of my search son was a milestone in my life.

And with his loss, I realized through his loss and through my own grief journey, I realized that I don't have a widespread knowledge about grief, despite my medical education. And so I started researching. I had to give birth to him. He was my third beloved son.

And I always say that in a way I gave birth to death in the body of my third son, which was a milestone in my life. And that's how I arrived to the field of grief. And that time I started researching. I was researching the science of grief, the spiritual approach of grief.

And that's how I found grief recovery method, which gave me stability in the midst of chaos of grief. Yeah, I can't imagine what that journey has been like for you. I was in the room. I would give you a hug.

Thank you. You know that. Well received. Yeah.

And, and, and you know, and that's one thing. I'd love to discuss a little bit because I think that's one thing. You know, society at large. We simply have a lack of knowledge around grief, right?

We don't learn much about it from our parents or from society. And then it enters our heart. It breaks our heart. And, and, and we go to the tools we're familiar with, right?

Many people are familiar with, with living kind of intellectually using logic for most of their, you know, daily lives. And so we try and heal our grief with logic and reason and, and intellect. Other people have, have found tremendous. And, and this is a tremendous.

Life from their faith, right? The, the source of their life is their faith and, and so people who, you know, lean on their faith. They want to go immediately to their faith. And, and, and, and you know, all of these things are, are good things.

We find them with the grief recovery method. What we find is. Where we're not very familiar or skilled is looking at the emotional aspects of grief, which I would say is, is the massive kind of. I would say is, is the massive kind of gorilla in the room when it comes to a loss is the emotional state we're in and the emotional heartbreak and anguish that we're feeling.

And so I love that you said that right you look for kind of the scientific. You're a doctor, you're trained medical doctor, so I'm sure you were looking at papers, right? And the, and the logic, the intellectual part of it. Like you said, you were looking at the faith.

Did you know when you found the grief recovery method? Did you understand initially all these people focus on the emotional or was that through the process you kind of understood that like what I guess my question is what spoke to you what stood out about the grief recovery method. You know, differing from the other things that you found out there. Yes, because I'm sure you found other other other things, but what spoke to you about the grief recovery method if you remember.

So as, as I mentioned, I arrived to the field of grief through my own life journey. And it's really important what you just pointed out because when I was in the hospital and I had to give birth to my son. And you know, in that moment, a woman body becomes a coffin. And it's a place for transition between life and death.

And then we have to give birth to death. That's why I would like to use this sentence to emphasize what we have to go through in this in such a hard life situation. And I remember that I was in contact with you know with my relation or word with my friends with my doctor friends with my artist friends. And in the depths of grief, I realized that I did have very, very meaningful and helpful advice is and connections through my doctor friends.

And I was more in the operational level and the scientific level, let's say, and when I was experiencing these really, really hard and deep emotions. Basically, I would say there were only my artist friends who really understood without questioning what I was going through. And they were holding me, they were holding me without words, even, even through the phone, you know, that we were in contact and they were helping me with their presence. Because we do healing connection and the healing happens in the body and in connection.

So we both know that, you know, grief makes us isolated. And from isolation, we have to move to participation. Right. And from this connection, we have to move to connection because trauma itself a disconnection.

Yes, yes. And so correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing is your doctor friends were trying to show up as best they could, but the tools they were familiar with are kind of logic based tools diagnostic tools kind of again intellectual up here. And if we can just help Andrea up here, we can help her right. And your artist friends maybe because of kind of just their natural disposition, maybe, you know, they, they were more familiar with being in their heart with you.

And you felt safer kind of with them in your grief. Is that, is that accurate? Yes. And that's why I love.

You know, your father how he phrased it in the grief recovery method that it's about the hearts and it's not about our brain. So the body mind unity, the body, I would even say the body mind heart unity is the key in healing. Yes, yes, I totally agree. And I think that is the missing component.

There are, again, there are, there are grief groups based around spirituality. And, and my, and again, I'm grateful that they exist. But again, a lot of the time the what I see is those people, they'll go to that group and they will reduce their sense of isolation because they'll be with other people, which is great. And they will apply the faith based tools, but they still seek out our work, right, because again, the bulk of of unresolved grief from what we've seen is emotional.

And if your tools are an emotionally based to help get complete with those emotions, say goodbye to the pain, you know, the things we do in this work that are very, very heavily emotionally based. And that people are still in search of something. So in other words, we get a lot of people in grief recovery who have tried other things, yet they're still seeking. And I don't really see that much in terms of if people come do grief recovery work, I don't, I don't see them have to go search for other grief tools because, again, I, our work addresses the emotional parts of the grief, right.

So it's just something I think is really important for listeners who are not familiar with our work, that is really what we specialize is the emotional, emotional components of grief and how to help people resolve that part of their grief. And again, if it when we can help people emotionally, then all of a sudden their spiritual tools work that much better because I think that is the right order, right. It's like we're bleeding to death emotionally. Let's, let's stop the bleeding emotionally.

And then let's look at our spiritual tools for other people. Sometimes again, intellectual logical tools or understanding more around the loss that may be of help for them, possibly. Exactly. I think that's why grief is individual, we always say it's like our fingerprints.

So the healing is individual as well. So I think we don't have to distinguish or prescribe what tools would work for people, but how I might show what it meant for me and how grief recovery, how the grief recovery method helped me. I say that grief is a pyramid, then you know, you can look at a pyramid, which is huge and can be even scary. And a pyramid can represent grief for me because you can only see it from the outside and never enter into the pyramid.

But you know, our, our hydrologists spend a lifetime to understand what's inside a pyramid. And for me, grief recovery method gave me a very good base for the pyramid of grief of my grief. And, and then when I had this base using the tools of grief recovery method, I could be in that scary pyramid of grief with confidence. And then I could try different approaches, but it did give me a very well based stability because if we think about how the pyramid looks like, you know, it's stable, if it's standing on its base, if it's standing on its peak, it's not stable.

So maybe that could be a helpful way that the listeners understand what the grief recovery method could give us as a really, really helpful and emotionally helpful tool in our grief journey. Yeah, that's beautifully put I love the way you articulated that right it's like the foundation is wide and solid. And then there are other pieces of that pyramid that people will want to search out right it's like I'm constantly talking to and looking and doing stuff for my own life right it's like nutrition and exercise and you know clean air and good sleep and hiking like those are all actually components of how I'm working through my grief process at different times in my life. But that is not the foundation of it that is all kind of a part of the pyramid yeah and that's I'm really happy that you're mentioning it because that's exactly what happened to me because I can maybe share some components of my tools that I managed to develop through the years.

My own individual tools which helped me so when I did the work with grief recovery methods and as I mentioned it did give me the stability of my pyramid I started you know researching so for example just the fact that I allowed myself I gave permission for myself to express my feelings. That was very helpful and you know grief recovery method was actually pushing me that way right encouraging all the grievers to express our feelings to be a heart with an ear even for ourselves every day. And I always say that I love children and I do collect the wisdom of children because I do believe that children come to this world with a born wisdom and I remember I asked a little boy three year old little boy why do you cry and he answered because it always works. So you know expressing our emotion is a key even if it's crying even if it's laughing.

I also collect wisdom from grievers one gentleman agree were told me that grief work is hard I cry a lot I grieve a lot but grieving makes space for laughter. So you know exactly so expressing our feelings are key I couldn't talk when I was in the depths of my grief call I couldn't my my vocal cords were not functioning properly I was avoiding meeting people I was avoiding conversations. And so I said this is this is just not good so I started thinking. I did thinking and now I'm a member of a choir and we are preparing now for an international choir competition.

Wow wow so and that's from my grieve journey. Yeah physical activity you did mention I couldn't move call after losing my third son giving birth to this in his body just affected my body in the level of cells today as scientists we do know that we have the biology of trauma which is affecting us in the level of the cells. So I there I remember that my grief was mainly in my lower back so I could only crawl I couldn't drive my kids my older sons to school I was cared and I'm I love sports but I couldn't my body was not functioning because grief was you know trapped in my body. So I slowly started building up the physical activity and today as of today I'm preparing for the marathon I ran to half marathons in the last half year yes.

So you know it was a huge transition for me nutrition as you said focusing on what we eat we are what we eat right so that's also really important aspect because grief does. Because impact our eating habits we either eat a lot or we cannot swallow one bite depending on how the individual. Griever reacts to this really painful. Complex feeling of grief so I started writing that's another tool.

I learned trauma writing so some of my writings were published in books already about grief so these were just some of my tools that really helped me and that's why I always use this really important sentence that without depth there is no height. And if we use a number for that I love my favorite number is number eight I was born on the eighth of December and and I always say that it represents this sentence for me that without depth there is no height so with the degree and you know the the middle of number eight is the moment when the transition can happen the transformation. And if we think about the whole human body then the middle is in the heart so yeah yeah that's that's I love that right and the the Yin and the Yang right it's like people are constantly they're constantly surprised when I do the in person trainings how much laughter is coming out of the room you know the hotel staff almost without fail every time.

Yes I remember when we were together in England we had the sign right that grief recovery conference and then we were laughing so much and people were coming like what's happening here that's why I use this beautiful quote right that what this gentleman said that that grieving and the work that we do makes. Place and space for laughter yes so and he also I remember it was a doctor gentleman and he did say that you know the way how we express our hard emotions our muscles we use a lot our muscles in our face and you know for crying and then he said in a way we trained them and wait for the moment. The moment then laughter can come and then we can use those muscles or so for laughter because because grievous really think that they won't be happy again in their life right yeah and you know it's interesting because obviously laughter we laugh so much well hopefully you're laughing a bit quite a bit in life.

But what I find is again if we're not willing to go to the depths of our pain and and a moat with tears there I find there is a cap on on the peak of the laughter right like in other words a lot of our laughter in society is is kind of superficial right it's kind of it's not it's not the peak it's not the belly laughs that we're really looking for in life right and and that's what I'm so in awe of in these grief seminars we do is these people who are coming. That have you know just knives out sticking out of their heart emotionally because we're because they feel safe to process the sadness because they feel safe to cry without judgment because we have a rule that says don't apologize for any feelings and they get to go to those depths right there. It's like the laughter in our stuff is not surface level after right it's it's like the belly laughs the the peaks of the happiness like you said when you allow people and you you make it safe for them to go to the depths of what they need to look at yeah the peaks are a whole different level right and that's one thing I would just convey to listeners who are curious about this work or you know maybe looking into working with a specialist locally in your community or they have the book and they're looking at just doing the workout of the book with a friend.

Whatever you're at if you're curious the the benefit that so many of us would have found with grief recovery is we get to have those peaks back in our life right grief kind of robs us right we're so scared to go down and look at that stuff and and that that you know and that doesn't allow us to get to the peaks we used to get to and so we're just kind of in this like realm right and sadly people are there for 10 years 15 years 20 years the whole rest of their life because of unresolved grief right because they just didn't know what they're going to do. They didn't know how to go and look at that and complete what they needed and that's that would be what I what I beg of you is looking to agree for recovery because what time and time again I know with your clients with clients I've worked with you get the peaks back in your life you can go to true true content and happiness in spite of these things we never wanted to happen to us or the people I we loved right the the losses this the traumatic experiences we had it's you can still have a very important amazing fulfilling life with peaks right that that's our message to people out there.

Yes and I would maybe if I if I if I may I would use some of the quotes that I said I've been collecting from grievers. Yeah please one beautiful griever told me that Andrea grief is so painful that I want to die but I don't have suicidal thoughts. It was so meaningful the way how she expressed it because she was talking about the you know the the depths of grief and we are so scared she said also that no that was another griever she shared that I feel that with one foot I'm in life and the other foot is in death so you know it's like this this dark scary very very hard feelings and they also verbalize that I hear it very often that Andrea I'm so scared that I won't be able to be happy again. And then I would like to just say the quote from Nicholas chumpfort he said happiness is not easy to find it is very difficult to find it in yourself and it's impossible to find it anywhere else.

Yeah I love it. So and that's what the grief recovery method I think you know it's a really really helpful way that it can guide us to find that deep happiness in ourselves looking back what happened to us so far. And I'm obviously now talking about the last history graph which is I do think it's a really helpful way to to look at our presence. And because when we are grieving we we not just want to find that happiness we want to be in peace but we feel that we are in pieces and the way how we go through the grief recovery that steps of the grief recovery methods I think we do work on these pieces.

But then when we finish it we can find that piece. Yeah I love that I want you to keep talking I'll be quiet because you're just you know articulating such beautiful things that I love I love your. The way that you frame grief recovery I love the way that you see grief recovery it's it's really really special so let's see sorry sorry call to interrupt but also let me verbalize this really important part because you know it can be very painful to hear from grievous as I'm also working with mainly with parents with child loss. And it's really painful to hear why the education does not include talking about grief and the grief recovery method why.

Yeah because like why do we have to learn about it after the tragedy happens. Yes yes well you know a lot yeah I'm excited to announce our premium in-person certification training individuals who have a desire to help other people with grief and loss join us for a four day event that you will remember forever. This is based on the proven four day certification we've done before the curriculum is the same but now you're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from Sandy. These are tangible tools that help people in any area of their life.

You're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from me we will have double the amount of trainers to answer questions you have. I want to help people I'm missing information this missingly. I'm an advocate for the grieving process because I know that's like why would you not tell somebody to heal. There's going to be some tears in there there's going to be some tissues but well I think what will surprise people that are considering this training is if you sat outside of the room when this training is happening.

You wouldn't believe how much laughter is happening in this training. You wouldn't believe how much joy and hope you can see on people's faces as we're breaking and people are coming out of the room. It's everything. The thing she was saying made me feel seen and normal and validated and not insane.

I saw grief as this really bad dark thing instead of seeing it as the actual healing process. As someone who's been in this field for 15 years now I would have loved to have been trained under these circumstances. It's just such a premier training. You're going to probably walk away with some like lifelong friends.

We did not want to say goodbye to each other at that end of that four days. Be able to help walk them through that and give them that same light bulb that came on in my head. It was a trend that's transformative. It was such a rich time of learning and engaging, listening to people's stories, being present, being focused with who you're talking to is such a big part of the grief recovery work.

I had done a lot of things. I had done coaching. I'd been in therapy. I'd done a lot of other modalities and they were helpful.

But when I did the grief recovery method and when I walked through the method and continued to use the tools, life began to have color. I went from being very emotionally disconnected to being very connected. Do not wait. Seeds are filling up.

Sign up. You will not regret it. I cannot wait to see you. Have a great day.

Well, here is here's my take on that, right? Somebody with four children. Right. So actually an IRA is in four children right now.

Right. And you know, all of us as parents. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

All of us as parents, right. We want nothing more than to shield our little ones from heartache. Right. Like you said, they come out of the womb.

So joyous and so wise. Right. And so pure and innocent. And you know, you just love that about them.

And then the world happens, right. And they they lose the pet dog or you know, they see the deer that was hit on the road or you know, whatever. And the harshness of life lost the tragedy of life enters their hearts, right. And as parents were so desperately trying to shield them from all of that.

Right. I think we're just terrified to again, right. I mean, you know this in the grief recovery method, right. There's this whole section in the book called Miss of grief myths about grief.

And one of the biggest myths is, you know, don't feel bad. And we will tell a grieber, you know, not directly with the quote don't feel bad. I mean, very rarely, but sometimes people do that. But think of it more as a concept, right.

It's a general shielding of, hey, hey, don't feel bad. I'll give you a reason why it's okay or hey, you know, you know, it could have been worse or let's be grateful for how long you had him or hey, that's just part of life. Let me minimize it. Right.

But every piece of it is trying to get the person to not feel bad. Even though they already feel bad. It's already happened, right. And so that, that is why I believe by the time we're adults.

And we have, you know, I shouldn't say by the time we're adults, whenever, however old you are when you really have the big, big losses. You know, the world had from the very start since you were a child has been trying to shift you away from even looking at that stuff or being familiar with how to process that. And I think that's, that is just the problem, right. Is it's, it's, you know, people, parents, depending on how your parents were when they talk about birds and the bees, right.

When they talk about reproduction, you know, some, some parents put that off until way too late. You know, maybe some parents bring it up too early. Like whatever the case may be, at some point, like you look, you know, I look at Ashley and we're like, you know, do you want to talk to him about that? Should I talk to him.

But you sit down and you have that conversation, right. We, none of us ever have that conversation around grief, you know, right. It's like, and when the grief comes up, the adults are so busy hiding from it. That they just, that again, tools are just not shared with the youth, right.

And they're not shared with the teenagers. And by the time you're an adult, you're supposed to figure out how to navigate it. And so it's just a topic where terrified, right. I mean, we have this all the time with decision makers at large companies.

You know, there's like middle management that love grief recovery that are willing to attend. But if the, if the decision maker at the top is terrified of their own grief, they are not sending a team of 10 people learn about how to talk about grief, right. They're terrified of it. Or maybe, you know, maybe they have some unresolved things.

So grief does really. It's a scary topic. Let's just say that. But let me squeeze this really important sentence here that grief is natural.

Yes. Thank you. So let me reflect on what you just shared. And thank you so much for that.

I'm going to start with my own life journey and grief journey. So I start with an adult quote. David Lynch said that when we become adults, we think we understand the rules. But what we really experience is the lack of imagination.

My kids, my beautiful sons, I have a 17 year old now and a 14 year old son. And I lost my third beloved son. And they were absolutely part of our loss and of our grief. I was, you know, really naturally was sharing everything.

I was thinking about what I went through because it was important for me. And then the moment I could sense how natural it is for children to handle grief. I did tell you in the beginning or a couple of sentences before that I collect the wisdom of children. And the first sentence which made me do this treasure hunting, let's say, was from a three year old boy who asked me, mom, if our heart beats all in our life, when can it play?

I think about that. It's pure philosophy out of a three year old mouth. So when we were in the life situation of losing our third son and their brother. And we were talking about it as a family in our nucleus, you know, in a safe container about grief that, you know, grief is part of life or life is part of, you know, that's a part of life and or life is part of this.

I still don't know. Still keep on asking this question. But I did share about the heart feelings grief itself. And I remember one day my younger son was setting the table.

And he did put an extra plate on the table. And I asked him, why did you put an extra plate? We are not expecting guests today. And he looked at me and he said, well, this is for my little brother.

I think he has a place at home in our dining room with us. And then the moment he shared it, you know, he went and he played. It was natural. It was not behind the scenes.

It was not, oh my god, don't talk about it. No, it was, it was in a flow. He had an emotional moment. Obviously, after his emotional moment, obviously touched me deeply.

So I had an emotional moment. But I didn't collapse. Obviously, I was, you know, already. I had a big knowledge about my grief.

And I did my work with the grief recovery method. So I, as I said, I had the base of my pyramid, right? Yes. And I was not lost in that moment of grief because that's also, I think, very important to distinguish based on the newest neuroscience that grief and grieving is different.

So grief is the human emotion, which we experience based on life situations, but grieving is our relationship to the feeling of grief. So that's what we do with grief, with the grief recovery method that I always say that, you know, this is what happened. Unfortunately, I don't have a magic wand. I cannot change what happened.

I wish I could, but I can. But what is connected to that traumatic life event, our relationship to that, we can work there. There's a space for that to work. And that's where grief recovery method comes in because we do work on our relationship with our grief, grilling.

And, and I think that is very powerful because then it turns to a learning process. It is an adaptation. It gives us possibility. It's a very hopeful definition, I think.

Yes. That's beautiful. And for those that have the grief recovery handbook, right? There's a section in there about 1% responsibility.

That's kind of what Andrea is speaking about right now. And it is, it is beautiful and very exciting for us to have more and more science and evidence based research back up pretty much every piece of the grief recovery method process, right? And I have more of the, the, the, the, the how or the wise behind, you know, the stuff that works. And it's, that's a great way to put it.

So, let's see, there's so much I want to cover with you, Andrea. And so I want to make sure we get everything in and time. Can you tell us a little bit about the, the work you do as a doctor, the clinic, their in Budapest. Can you tell us a little bit more on, you know, physically, how are you helping people and then also, again, you emotionally, that's, that's what makes you such an important person out there is some not a lot of people have both tools to help with both sides of it.

That's what I'm so impressed with your work. So, yeah, please tell us what you're doing there. Yes. So, thank you so much.

So, I always emphasize that I consider my profession to help grievers, but I always emphasize that I didn't find my profession, my profession found me through my own life journey through the loss of my third son, which was a milestone in my life. Before I did finish medical university, I did work in clinical research and we are with my husband, we are an owner of a private clinic in the heart of, sorry, in the heart of Budapest. And I always emphasize that as for the professional perspective, I have two big rooms in my heart, one is for grief and one is, and the, all the work that we do there and the other is for breast cancer awareness. So, in Hungary, we work with approximately almost 100 doctors in our clinic, medical doctors in approximately 40 different specialties.

And we have a big breast diagnostic department. We are using artificial intelligence for a long time now to provide the best care and the best. And the best possible diagnostic in this really important field. And just like with, you know, the grief field, I think education is key.

So education in breast cancer awareness is also a key. And I do think there is a bridge between that there's a linkage right because when we experience the loss of our health, when we have to face a life changing diagnosis, then we immediately experience grief. So, I, you know, I do my best to, to, to be the bridge between these really important pieces and try to help our patients also with not just with the best medical care. But with the medical care plus the knowledge with grief and grieving.

Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. Let me, let me ask you this just because I'm curious. You said that that prime, you know, the primary population that you work with with grief with your grief recovery work is people who have lost a child. Yes, well, you know, that's how life happens that.

Right. It's right. Life just leads us on our path and mainly, mainly I work with parents, which I'd lost and this really hard life situation. Yes, and we find that very often, right, with with a loss of a child, a lot of the time, people are looking for someone who has had that loss and looking for help with someone who has had that experience.

So that totally makes sense. My question is, you're helping, you're helping women and they get this, this terrifying diagnosis of breast cancer. Yes. And, and, you know, and, and so I would imagine that most of the focus is, you know, treating that and, and kind of surviving that experience.

Do you have women who do grief recovery from the clinic that are like, do people do some of the women do that work? The grief recovery work. Well, Are you just, are you just know how to kind of navigate. Talking freely about, hey, grief is a component of this, right, change sadness, like, like how, I guess that's my question right is, is do you end up doing grief recovery work with any of the.

Yes, the people from there. You know, the short answer is that it's really hard hard to divide myself. Yes, because now, mainly I work with English, gravers, because that's how my grief journey leads me. And I do individual work currently because I, I find it, you know, really sensitive.

Connection to build a connection as a helper with someone who lost a child. So, and I am the owner of the private clinic. So let's put it this way that it's in my long term plan to include the grief recovery method. In a more widespread way.

And in our clinic. You know, services, because I think it is really important to provide. Helpful care. For patients who experience the loss of health.

And as far as I know. And you know, that's in Hungary. So that would be in Hungarian and as far as I know, there's a good news for us about the Hungarian translation of the book, because we did have some. Kind of difficulties to.

To have the older version of the book, because you know, it was sold. It was sold out. And as far as I know, it's. And I have some good news for us.

And I, I do hope that we can, you know, step in a new road in Hungary to. To provide deeper and better care and help on the field of grief. For even for patients. In our clinic.

Yes, yes, thank you. Let, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. So I am pleased to announce and I want to thank Emoke Sarungi. And her team there, they, they basically run grief recovery in Hungary and they do certification trainings and there's many specialists in Hungary helping griever.

So I just want to say hello to everyone out there doing this, this much needed work there. We, we thank you from the grief recovery institute. And, and Emoke has been a guest on the show as well. So some listeners may be familiar with that episode.

But they have been hard at work doing the translation of the most current version of the grief recovery handbook. And we finally have that all done. It's a great translation. And more importantly than it being done, it's actually available.

So we spoke with Ed earlier offline. And he, we're going to make sure that we put the links to purchase that brand new. And we have a lot of different kinds of links to the translation in the show notes. So if you go to YouTube or you know whatever show note section of podcast you're listening to this on.

There should be a link to that. So for our Hungarian listeners. Please, you know, click that link, get a copy, get five copies, give them out to friends and family. But we're so thrilled that that is finally here.

And again, thank you for the team and hungry that made that happen. Thank you for Ed and Brittany for helping on this side. Yeah, you know, because again, for those that don't know, my dad, when he kind of wrote this book, he just thought this was a Western US problem. Everyone else kind of had a handle on grief, right?

That's how naive he was, right? And he'll say this. So I'm saying it. And now the books in 27 languages, 28 languages, right?

There's not really a country that we can't go to and and and help people with grief. And I love that about our work, right? Culturally we can help people across cultures. Men, women, you know, it really all different types of losses.

It's a beautiful thing. So, yes. Yeah, I would like to I would like to add that it was really transformation. And I remember when the whole network of grief opened up for me.

I found these connections no matter where the person was, what religion they had. It was, you know, that's why I said that we had a language in common, the language of grief. Yes. So let me just I'm so sorry to say that, but let me just pronounce the Hungarian name of America.

So she. I do that because I think it's really important because she's the head of the Hungarian grief recovery institute. I would say that's the transition. Yes, properly.

So her name is Emuk. And she's also medical doctor. So Dr. Shorongi Emuk in Hungarian and she's doing an amazing job in Hungary.

So I just really wanted to sorry pronounce it. No, please, please, I should have had you do that at the start. No, no, no, I just, just saying hi to her from this end. Yes, yes, we love you very much.

Because I know that their job was, oh my God. You know, huge work behind the scenes. I'll say this and you're another doctor. We've had countless doctors in the certification training.

And when we talk about what unresolved grief over a lifetime, we'll do if we don't not a process any of that. And you, you know, you have a backpack and you keep accumulating loss and grief and trauma and society is terrified and doesn't have the tools to help you process that. That weighs down the body, right? That that affects the body.

And so every, you know, pretty much every certification we talk about. I'm not saying that this is 100% the cause of these conditions, these heart disease, anxiety, you know, fact problems, cancer. I'm not saying that grief is 100% the cause, but I do personally believe that it creates a very rough environment for those things to kind of thrive in one spot. I mean, you know, in general, I can't talk about it.

I just cannot, you know, tell you an exact research now, but trauma, we know that trauma is what happens inside the body because of the traumatic event. And we do know that when this disconnection happens inside our body, it has an impact on the level of the cells. So we do know about the biology of trauma. There's a lot of work out there.

And for example, best of under cork book, the body keeps the score or, you know, I can say probably I can say books that are very important. Dr. Gabo Armates book books, his work, Amy, a pig in book, the biology of trauma. So there's a lot of important pieces.

And we do know that we have a lot of work out there. So when, you know, we do our search and research, we can find not even in the, in the scientific depth. And there are lots of amazing books that can give us really, really meaningful information, how our body reacts to trauma because our cells, the aim of our cells, each and every one of our cells is the home health. And then we experience the disconnection, this kind of becomes, it changes.

And that's how our symptoms and then diseases can unfortunately manifest in our life. Yeah, and sorry, one more thing, you know, I think this is also very, very important sentence. It's from Dr. Editeva Eger.

She says that the opposite of depression is expression. So when we depress something, then it gets stuck in the body. And then it will have a different channel to manifest. Yeah, no, absolutely.

And, you know, Mike, I don't know how it is there, but I would say my critique of modern healthcare in the United States, right, is we're not really focused too much on preventative, right. It's like I have the problem I go. And now we have a whole team of people in buildings with crazy technology to help me battle it right versus, hey, you know, let's look at this backpack that is, is creating a body that is not expressing things like you said, that's for years and years and years. And I think we've reached other things like in our books, Derb, short-term energy, relieving behaviors, we go to kind of cover things that can also lead to health issues.

But again, the point is, is I think I think we all kind of know, because we've been doing this long enough that unresolved grief and trauma is really, really affecting the health of our bodies. And we're just, I wish people would look at that more, right. That's like, I love that, at least here in the States, but I think there's, I actually think you have a lot more stuff outlawed in Europe in terms of like the garbage that we're eating here in the States. Like you can't really, you can't get it there, which I think is great.

And so people are looking at food, people are looking at water and exercise and sunlight and, you know, all the circadian rhythm. And that is all great stuff, right. And so, I think there is a movement for preventative, but I don't want that to get lost on, hey, you could be doing all of that. But if you have a backpack full of grief and trauma and you were terrified to open that zipper and start unpacking some of that stuff, right.

You're missing a piece of the puzzle of preventative. That's why I always say that, you know, a lot of times, I mean, our clinic focuses on prevention, but unfortunately, I think we can say that currently a lot of times we're not doing healthcare, we are doing illness care. Oh, there you go. And there's a big difference between the two.

And it's the same with grief, right. That if we know about grief, that it can happen in our life, and it will, because, you know, there's, I think it happens with everybody to experience losses and it doesn't have to be someone dying to experience grief. And it's, then we know that we have that prevention, right. So we know that the healthcare is different from the illness care.

And I can probably translate it because I do love the language, our language, the Hungarian language, because it's a really amazingly rich language, very hard one, but very, very unique. And if I translate back to English, the word health, it means, um, wholeness. And here, healthy, if we are, you know, a whole like everything is there, it's the again, and then we can go back to the body, mind, heart unity. Yes.

And what we just, we were just talking about it, you know, that what trauma does inside our body, and then how important it is to emphasize that the healing happens inside the body. Yeah, I love that. I cannot believe it, but we are at the hour mark, my friend. So we will, we will need to have you back for episode two, when we can find time in your schedule in mind.

But I just, it's been an absolute honor to speak with you. Thank you so much. I am so glad that our paths cross there in England, and, and that you are representing our work. You're exactly the type of person that we are so grateful that is led to this work.

Again, I, my heart hurts for all of us who are led to this work because it means we had some tragic thing we did not want. I agree. But I'm, I'm glad that you, you know, these tools were helpful for you and that you signed up to help other people. I think it's just a beautiful thing you're doing out there.

So, um, where can people find you, Andrea, if they want to, you know, work with you. And what's the best place for them to get in touch with you? Yes, I have my own web page, which is basically my name, W, W, W dot, dot Andrea, Sagetti, MD dot com. So that's my, I will link to that.

Thank you so much. And, you know, I'm, I'm a heart winner near, as we say, in the grief recovery institute and, and on the field of grief. And I also would like to emphasize how important it is to have that network. Um, that we do have a network.

So we don't have to be alone with this really, really hard feeling of grief. Um, because we have this network that holds us in a very careful way. Um, I was just in the Oxford transform trauma conference recently and the topic was, um, you know, healing, you know, a relational bird. So because, you know, we heal in collection.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Um, and, uh, is that on, is that on video anywhere, the presentation that you did? No, no, no, I was a participant there.

I was a participant there. Yes, got you. Got you. Okay.

Well, anyway, I want to thank you again for being on the show for the time and, and again, all the people that you help that will never get to meet. Our hats off to you. And, and again, I look forward to visiting you at some point to your family. Please do so.

It's a goal of mine to get actually, and I have there. Yes. And for all of you listeners, everybody listening, thank you so much for your support. I hope you found that educational and helpful.

So until next time, this is the Feel free again podcast. Have a great rest of your day or evening and we will see you next time. Yes. And don't forget that without depth, there is no height.

Love it. I can't follow that. Take care, everyone.