How Grief Affects Your Health with Doctor Emőke Sarungi

Sometimes when you walk into the grief recovery room, right. There are boxes of tissues everywhere and that can be very, very scary for people for right for you. So, but just know that there are tears in our work and there is a lot of laughter in our work too. And that's what catches people off the hard is how much laughter that happens in these rooms as well.

Again, our goal with the institute is to make tears as normal and natural as laughter because it is right. But in society, we're taught to hide that and again on this podcast, we don't we don't need to worry about that. So. And you know, and because we'll get into this at some point today because I know some there's some heaviness on your heart about what you're going through right now.

And so again, tears are okay and tissues are good. So again, thank you for your time today. And let's begin. So usually where we start a mochi is is kind of can you let us know and the audience know what led you to the grief recovery method.

You know, I'd love to hear that that journey from you. Yeah. So in 2008, 2008, my dearest friend Andrea told me the method. And I was the first time although I'm a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist, I didn't really realize that I'm a griever because I was in a relationship, which actually hadn't gone over.

I was in the relationship, but I lost a lot of dreams hopes and expectations. And I was deeply in grieve. I woke up in every two hours in the middle of the night. I couldn't concentrate.

I just didn't answer the phone calls, the emails. So I told me that you are grieving now and I just say, okay, what? But she told me just come to me into into Stockholm and I will lead you through this method. She was already grief recovery method specialist in Sweden at that time.

And when I did this method with Andrea through this strange relationship, I just felt that I jump back into the into the present into my life. Wow. And it was like, wow, like this, you know, and I felt that, okay, I didn't know in deeply this method. But I can say it's not only about grief or for me, it's more about life.

How I can how I can step back into my life into my present. So I started to see our colors on leaves and realize that I have new plans. I get back on my new energy and energetic self. And I was really, really, I don't know happy about that and enthusiastic.

So that was the main point and I will always be very deeply grateful for Andreas. Move for me. For us, sir, for John, oh, and for this method because it deeply changed my life. It was I used to say it's deeply changed my life and my relationships.

Okay. Yeah. No, thank you for that. And just so just so I'm clear, right?

You were in a you were in a romantic relationship and the relationship hadn't ended yet, but it was you were in a rocky relationship. Yeah. And a friend and this is a recurring theme on this podcast, right? And so this time comes up time and time again where a friend will point out, hey, there's a big component of grief.

Here of unresolved emotional incompletion in this relationship. And you know, and you're sitting there saying grief like no, that's not what I have, right? That's right. Right.

But because you trusted your friend, you were willing to go through the process and through the process you discovered. Oh, wow. Like I see it now. Right.

And that's one of our challenges, frankly, as an organization is so many people can benefit from this work, but they don't think they qualified. Because they don't really understand that concept around grief is about change. It's about incomplete emotions. It's not just about someone who has died, right?

And yes, we can help with that absolutely. But, but the benefits of this work go far, far behind beyond just that type of a loss, right? Like, and so. So, yeah.

So you went through the method, right? With Andrea there. And what happened next in your journey? Yeah.

I was very full of enthusiasm. And Andrea asked me just check that do we have in Hungary in Hungarian? Any kind of action program for grief recovery? And I've checked that there was groups.

There was grief support. Of course. It's very huge in Hungary, but there was no any action program like this. And I think that was the point for me that it's an action.

We give a method to grievers and I got a method. Yes. And I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why the last thing you do to make me work through these days is help make you work in those days. attend the suit 分心一說 sega Zimmer cookie You DR the Tungury and in 2015 I decided to build it up as an institute so I will become a trainer and from 2015 till 2018 you know I got my training become a trainer but my first mentor was Rasa and he's always in my head you know I used to hear his voice when I give a training and I used to just yeah and your father's voice so they are always there with me and you too because you also was my mentor at the end when I finishing my becoming a trainer yeah well they both really really loved you and they were so proud of the work you were doing and I remember Russell you know that trip when he went over there to Hungary with you guys he always spoke so so highly about his experience with you guys and and your beautiful country I want to get out over there selfishly as well so we got to figure out how I can do a training too out there yeah you know I had my dream about that you will come oh that's right that's right okay it's happening all right so so you know again one thing that's so interesting to me about your story right is again you have so many professional credentials and then you also are a professor you know in at different universities there in the area and one place again I would really love for our method to get into is more of in more academics right in at the college level I think we could start showing young young people this method earlier on I think it would be great what what have you seen you know exploring the grief recovery method with with college students you know at at your universities kind of what what has been your experience just with that do people seem to respond to it younger people does it make sense to them mm-hmm first when I um just started my blessings or my lecture and I told them okay I will talk about the grief and grief recovery I just saw on their face that they started you know just close themselves that was at the beginning just I think they just started to step back most of them into the emotional isolation which is very grievous use very regularly to just leaving going alone one day by another day but when I started to talk about the method and my experiences and especially my losses and what my method gave to me they just opened their eyes started to ask things some of them started to cry didn't ask thing but send me an email so they are very open for this and I think nowadays in Hungary the grief recovery method is given through by by by mouth I don't know how to say this verbally verbally that one friend just say another there is a method and one psychologist is starting to another that there is a method so they speak they are speaking about this a lot of people yeah so the the word the the it's word of mouth is spreading by word of mouth thank you well you know it's really interesting is that honestly that's how it at is grown and and been the same in the United States and pretty much most places right it's like it's a scary topic the term grief really shuts people down like you touched on but but the the real key to our success is you have a trusted friend say whatever you think about grief just put that on hold and please just sign up for this program because it can help you with many different things you're struggling with not just death right and and I think that makes sense right like probably with college students hopefully hopefully a lot of them you know have not had really a lot of death in their in their lost history graph yet or in their history but yeah but they maybe they are struggling with the relationship right and and so you probably when you tell your story and it's about a relationship and then I loved what you said about the there were colors the leaves I was pick I was noticing leaves right yeah it's bounded different it's such a it's such a beneficial thing when you can point out like that's what you get when stuff out of your backpack right yeah better right then the the scenery I'm paying attention to all of a sudden I'm yeah it can be that dramatic for many people that's so cool again I love that you're getting this work in at that at that part of people's lives right I've often said if we could get these tools in our 20s yeah what what a gift what a gift yeah sure sure yeah so another thing I just want to touch on because again right the agree for coverage is about telling the truth about ourselves and it doesn't feel right for me to go really any farther with the stuff we're talking about because I know I know you are griver right now right and if you're willing would you let us know kind of what you're dealing with right now my friend yeah sure okay I lost my father we lost our father at the beginning of March his heart was stopped it was 88 his heart was very sick but I can talk to him and think to him on the last two evening before his death and on the day when he died he died my sister called us in different we living in different countries my brother and my other sister and also my daughter we were able to speak to him right after he died and we tried to communicate to him through phone of course what we feel what we could thank for him a lot of things so my heart is broken but I'm very calm in another way and sometimes you know you know that feeling and every griver know this feeling that I'm sometimes I'm just kind of lost I mean as I lost somewhere I'm very weak tired but in another hour I'm just full of energy which I realized that it's a type of energy what my father had so it's a very interesting experience but the most important thing I just realized that and this is why I really grateful for this method you know I used the method through when my father was living or living father yeah and I communicate through the method every everything so I think somehow I cleaned my heart I don't know how to say that but this this put me or set me able to be open he's calling and his words a year before yeah and if I didn't use this method regularly I couldn't couldn't have been open to his words because he told me almost a year ago online that I will never leave you and she told me in a way a kind of energy a kind of love that it heals my heart because we were separate from my very young childhood until I was 19 so I always missed him in a way and I was angry and I was everything and I was sad but we arranged our relationship and when he told that told me that I will never leave you it healed my heart so last spring after that I want to visit him and we just sit in a garden tell everything to each other you know the communication with full of love I love you I'm proud of you sitting and singing and when I leave you know he gave me my nickname my crying daughter because I'm very cry person so that's it he asked me don't cry that time when you leave you know and I think he knew that this was the last yeah and okay I told him okay daddy this time I won't won't cry and I think I can give him a kind of healing because that that was in his memory that I always cried after him when I was small so if I didn't use the method regularly in during his life during our living relationship I think I couldn't have been open to this kind of rearrangement to this openness so I'm deeply grateful so I'm grieving but grateful and in another way I'm very calm yeah in my heart yeah I'm giving you a big hug my friend I wish I was in the room with you but you know a hug over the internet will have to do right now I thank you for sharing that and again I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your father thank you you know I don't know how you feel but I know for me I had similar feelings around the loss of my dad and I'll tell you why and this is really I think important for our listeners yeah again we are grieving our living relationships all the time right we are grieving aspects of our relationships romantically we're grieving aspects of our childhood in the way we were parented by mom or dad it does not matter if your mom or dad is living or has died there is unfinished emotional business that we communicate that we accumulate throughout our lives right and so to give you an example when I came on board at the Grief Recovery Institute at 2010 I started traveling around the country and you know eventually the world with trainers training under them and I remember a year about a year into the the work so one of the trainers said hey have you done your relationship have you worked on your relationship with your dad yet and I was like no you know and again he's he's he's alive nothing's wrong right and but but then it came to me right all the things I've been on over the last year it's like oh no there's probably is some incomplete stuff there and so again I I did my whole the whole graph on my dad I wrote the letter to to this trainer around my dad and of course there was a ton of stuff to work on in that living relationship right but like you said that allowed me to have a business relationship with him for the next you know several years it allowed me to unpack and say goodbye to hurt that we had to compute accumulated and built up in the past and so I could have a whole set different relationship with him yeah forward because I unpacked a bunch of that stuff right and then like you like you touched on that allowed me to have a different emotional relationship with them as he lived and then as he was dying I had tools on how to identify what I needed to complete and how emotionally communicated and so when when he died of course I'm heartbroken of course I wish I he was on this planet for another 20 years like all those things I did feel but it as a griever it did feel different to have someone die when I had been doing a bunch of emotional communication work for you know weeks if not months before the death right and so there were still aspects that I was just grieving the death of my dad don't get me wrong but there were other things I had already cleaned up I had already worked on I had already got emotionally complete with and I was crystal clear I communicated those things to him before he died right and so that's I was hearing that from your story because you were trained in these tools and again it doesn't it doesn't make it any easier but it does make it different right the grieving experience went when you go into someone dying and you have these tools to communicate things you need to before the death right yeah sure and the last point and then again I want to turn it back over to you but the last point is I've I'd never witnessed this where we had a bunch of people flying in from different parts of the country to say goodbye to my dad all of the family members had gone through the grief recovery method all of the visitors had gone through the grief recovery method so the whole thing was about delivering undelivered emotional communications to each other right dad who trained them in doing that knew what was happening he was communicating them they were flying from all over the country you know in world to communicate things to him and it was such a beautiful I've never seen anything like it where everyone wow communicate right meanwhile my mom's reading him emotional communications that are coming in from the internet and then you know at times he it would be overwhelming and be like okay let's just go watch a TV show or something but it was such a beautiful experience because it was such pure communication happening right sure none of the none of the awkwardness that happened so much in families where we just don't have these tools thank you for sharing cool yes touched yeah um so moving back to you right we're like we're navigating this and and I like to say this too you're the director of the grief recovery institute of hungry I'm the director of the grief recovery institute in in the United States but when we're griebers we're just grieving right and and what I love about you know I'm sure your team and my team give us a lot of of of love and they they they pull all the slack that they know we can't pull in that moment because we're out of the moment because we're grieving because we're reminiscing and we're you know out of the moment a lot and so I'm sure a ton of that's going on with you and I know it was for me because again that you're not when you're the griever you're not the griever recovery expert you know you're just yes you're even your dad right or I'm a human being I'm a human being yeah that's right that's right and I think I think with our work there's a lot of humility there where a lot of people I think miss that sometimes as professionals or as caregivers they they kind of they think they get to kind of short uh so take a short cut around that and it's like we know that's not really how it goes oh yeah yeah something came to my mind yeah um and another thing what I really love to just enjoy why we are in this method together or a training or just communicate my fellow trainers because now we have uh other three trainers in Hungary yes and uh I trained the fourth so we are a team together and they gave me such a nice support during my grieve now so I think what is the most beautiful that we are together in our human beingness when we are grieving together and we are talk our emotional honest words about our grieves so and I love that that we can be human being together in our sorrow or pain or laughing or anything yeah yeah and and if you're listening you know what what Amoki saying and the way we do that the way that we create um real community around grieve is we create a safe place where we don't compare we don't judge we don't analyze we just know that that person our our our friend is grieving at 100% of what that relationship was for them that's all that matter right there's not a pecking order of grieve it you know my opinion is not relevant in terms of what they are hurting over I just know that my friend is hurting and I'm gonna sit there and I'm gonna be a heart with the ears and we're not gonna we're not gonna try and make them feel better or focus on the bright side we're just gonna let them be where they are um and that creates and I know it sounds really simple and probably if you're listening you're like oh yeah that's obvious but it's really not obvious yeah but in in the present or yeah in the reality it's not so easy always just to uh just to be with them you know and now I travel to Tanzania visit my family there and we were together and all of our family member had their very unique grieve process and I think I was there in a hundred percent I don't know how to say a low ones toward them just be as they are at the present moment no judging but another thing what I realized that as a griever I'm not sure I will find the right words I have to keep a safe space for my grief also do you understand that yeah that I have to give for myself a safe space just feel what I feel and not try to you know to give this um Oscar winning I don't know playing that time okay and I'm strong yeah so uh intends any I was a griever and I'm sometimes I just went to my room as being alone if I needed that but another time I was there for them and just I was you know hard with age as we used to say and we sitting together crying laughing telling stories and not judging yeah and and you know and and that's kind of what I was trying to articulate but it's tough right I'm I'm sure you would you would agree it is different being a griever surrounded by people who have all done the grief recovery method right so it's like you're I'm imagining you're in hungry you're around a bunch of people that are trained in this method and that's a different place and you can I would say for lack of a better term you can let your guard down more in that because you can tell the truth where you know if if I'm assuming you go to Tanzania and probably not everyone in the family is trained in grief recovery and so they're using all the tools that we all learn out there in the world so it's different being a griever surrounded by people who maybe don't know all the skills of grief recovery versus being surrounded by people that do right yeah but I'm proudly say that my my brother is a grief recovery specialist oh nice okay yeah yeah he's an he's an orthopaedic surgeon but he trained by Carol I think I don't know when 2022 was something okay and one of my friends in here no he's living in Scotland Glasgow Scotland okay got you okay yeah and one of my sister Veronica who was living with my father and her mother together he also went through him complete her relationship with my father yeah and she told me when I was there now that she's very grateful because after she complete with the method emotionally the relationship of our father they started to become so open that they can tell everything to each other in the last three years so she she's she's it was completely different than before so she's very grateful for the method also yeah yeah and and and so let me just interrupt again because I think some of the listeners who aren't familiar with the method are going to be confused right the theme that keeps coming up here and and Moki in the pre-interview you really mentioned you want to talk about this so I just want to stop here and talk about this too right in terms of the timeline of Moki's dad right in March Moki's dad died but as Moki and as a as her sister learned the method we all worked on our agree they all worked on their grief around their dad before he died in the living relationship and that allowed Moki and her sister like she just mentioned that allowed them to have a different relationship for several years before he died and that is one of the gifts of grief recovery that people don't understand right that it's like yes we can help it you if your heartbroken because someone died but it that is not the first time to start grief recovery with mom or dad or with siblings or with your wife or your husband or your boyfriend or your girlfriend or your children right the time to start is today right doing grief recovery work on them because you have accumulated stuff that has already heard that you're already heartbroken about and you're carrying that around and that is affecting your day-to-day relationship with these people who are alive right and and it's such a hard concept frankly to market it's a hard concept to get out there but I wanted to spend a little time on it because I could see listeners saying what do you mean they did you know they did work on their dad and then it improved their relationship but yeah they did work two three years ago or 10 years ago and that helped them have a better relationship with with your dad while he was still alive yeah sure sure as Russell told the sooner the better when to do the grief recovery method the sooner the better yeah I'm excited to announce our premium in-person certification training individuals who have a desire to help other people with grief and loss join us for a four-day event that you will remember forever this is based on the proven four-day certification we've done before the curriculum is the same but now you're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from Sandy these are tangible tools that help people in any area of their life you're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from me we will have double the amount of trainers to answer questions you have want to help people I'm missing information this missingly I'm an advocate for the grieving process because I know that's like why would you not tell somebody to heal there's going to be some tears in there there's going to be some tissues but well I think what will surprise people that are considering this training is if you sat outside of the room when this training is happening you wouldn't believe how much laughter is happening in this training you wouldn't believe how much joy and hope you can see on people's faces as we're breaking and people are coming out of the room it's everything the thing she was saying made me feel seen and normal and validated and not insane I saw grief as this really bad dark thing instead of seeing it as the actual healing process as someone who's been in this field for 15 years now I would have loved to have been trained under these circumstances it's just such a premier training you're going to probably walk away with some like lifelong friends we did not want to say goodbye to each other at that end of that four days be able to help walk them through that and and give them that same light bulb that came on in my head it was it's transformative it was such a rich time of learning and engaging listening to people's stories being present being focused with who you're talking to is such a big part of the grief recovery work I had done a lot of things I had done coaching I'd been in therapy I'd done a lot of other modalities and they were helpful but when I did the grief recovery method and when I walked through the method and continued to use the tools life began to have color I went from being very emotionally disconnected to being very connected do not wait seats are filling up sign up you will not regret it I cannot wait to see you have a great day yeah yeah thank you for cleaning this up yeah thank you yeah just thank you for make it very clear because it's very very important to understand for everybody I think so yeah no and you're and you're you're articulating it beautifully I just usually add add into there because I I try and put my I try and put myself in the listener's shoes that hasn't read the book that doesn't understand the concept of grief recovery and I just try to explain that to them because it's like oh okay I could see where the college kid when you're doing you know you're working as a professor I can see where it becomes more relevant to them when you start talking about living relationships because that's frankly where a lot of them probably in that stage of their life that's where they're struggling is friendship yeah romantic relationships and even mom and dad and what you know I are down my case so much and it's like all of that stuff can be cleaned up at at an early age and getting these tools early and applying them to a lot of living relationships is so so beneficial I the first time I got certified I was 18 years old right oh I'm with a bunch of adults that seemed completely ancient to me but I learned these tools and I learned oh wow life is about relationships specifically your friends and your family and if you know how to maintain those relationships we have far less estrangements we have you know we have far less of those things that sometimes last for years where we can't talk about them because we don't know how right and and it's such a gift to be able to complete that stuff emotionally communicate that stuff in the moment or shortly after the moment and know how to do it without creating big fights right that's another key to this work right we know what to deliver to that living person directly we know what to not deliver to that person directly right there is there is work that we do agree for recovery that we share indirectly of that living person which allows for more unity which allows to not have that other person view your communications as an attack and it's just beautiful the process yes I'm biased but again we've seen a hundred you know hundreds of thousands of people go through this method so at this point it's like I feel pretty safe to say yeah it's a pretty special way to look at life yeah sure yeah that's why I told that it was a life-changing method for me deeply yeah now another place that I think you have a very powerful part of your story if you're willing to go there and if you're not that's okay too but I think I think one thing that I really admire about you Moki and and the strength that you've had is as you have you have fought cancer now for for several years and what has that been like for you emotionally where has the method been helpful or not can you tell us a little bit about that experience if you're willing sure so it was like um um with shaking or I don't know how to say yes so my complete word turns upside down but from the first few hours I experience such a beautiful things for from other people so from my friend from my colleague from my family from the doctors that was beautiful so from the first few hours I was scared angry um surprised um but mostly grateful and it's so strange you know but these mixed experiences mixed emotions are grieve it's grieve these are the grieve feeling so I was grieving from the first second but this this I had breast cancer I had surgery in 2022 and I have chemotherapy in the first part of 2023 and this whole process the whole the whole recovery from this illness put me a whole other track in my life and the strange things that I was planning to change my track I was planning and I always told my friends and family members that okay maybe one or two years later I will work only two days per week or I will change a lot of things but I didn't but this was an opportunity for me to just change a lot of things but I used the method from the very beginning I think from the first day so I work with my body uh I mean I I wrote a completion letter to my body before my surgery you know I remember one of my friend a colleague trainer I I just read her online my letter to my breast and it was it was um hard breaking and uplifting at the same time and I'm so grateful for that but I work with my doctors with the method um work with my family members who was um was in the story so you know I just step always one step forward as I was able to but every single step when I used the method I was able to more be being in the present so and you know when I if I I'm more in the present I can see more possibilities anything yeah so I I'm not sure that it's clear because my English you know this whole story is in Hungarian in my head but that's the point if I use the method and I maybe just plus 20% or 30% more I'm able to be in the present I am able to be open for the possibilities about the love from others about the helpers about doctors about how to handle with all of this so I use it I used to say I use the method every day or sometimes um I'm three or three times per day and I use the regularly you ring my recovery process and I think it helped me I can't I can't find real words for that how deeply it helped me wow that I think you are are articulated that wonderfully okay and um I think that I think we all kind of are tracking what you're saying and and I want to thank you for that and I'm so glad that um that that you are on the other side of that you know and you and you're you know just again I'm sending you another hug from from the internet but uh thank you and I am very glad that that that's all going where we want it to go um a couple of things if you don't want to I want to I want to kind of again look at number one because again for people that don't know this work it's probably confusing uh do you mean that you can graph your body and then you can write a letter to your body and you can get emotionally complete for for your body and that is absolutely what Amokia was saying right and because yeah that's the this method I you know it's like if if I'm having surgery and I'm losing a part of me that's very important yeah yeah that's not grief right and do we and and and if again if we don't know what practical actions to take then we just hold all of that pain we hold that under this business right so um you know I just again I want to just make sure that you guys heard that is Amokia said you know what I am going to graph and write a letter to my body because my body after today after this surgery will be different and I want to be complete with my body that once was right um and that is so so key that that you did that work and then that you're telling people on this podcast that they can do that work too right um sure not to compare your loss to my Amokia right but sure uh growing up put yourself in my shoes uh I'm not good at school I don't think I'm very smart I'm at the b-rate reading table not the a reading table right I'm not great at math okay and I'm very hard on myself about that but you know what I was good at was baseball and okay dad being a baseball player he's happy to put me in cleats and find all the different leagues and we play catch and so I bond with my dad through baseball I find myself worth through baseball in high school you know I have coaches saying hey you have a chance to like be in the minor leagues maybe be in the major leagues right and then I have a division one baseball school and we're number five in the whole nation and the first year I'm there we win a big 12 championship which is a big deal in that at that level um and then uh and then I start cumulating grief but ultimately I ended up uh tearing my knee a bunch of my ligaments in my left knee right and so career career kind of ends right but think about all of the years I fantasized about being in the major leagues think about all the all the times I thought that was my pathway and I'm not very good at many things but I'm good at baseball and that's gonna be my career right and it's like intellectually you know someone would say coal it's that's a one in a million shot like no one gets to the many almost no one gets to the pros and that's all true yeah yeah yeah the fact of the matter is is I had years and years of emotional uh emotions built up around that yeah body I had and that what that body was gonna do for me in my life right and then one day literally overnight right as a 19 20-year-old kid it's like no that's all gone uh and I don't know what the percentage is right but I know for me that grief was so hard for me I drank a lot I used drugs and I had to cover pain for for you know a couple of years as deeply as I could right and I don't know what the percentage is but I would I would I would bet that a lot of athletes at the end of their career fall into drugs and addiction because from a very very early age they are very intensely trained right and and every day and working hard and it's like you're wiring this kid for one thing and to go into the extremes and then it's done and you're like how where do I go next right I see this similar when the military when people come out of the military right they they crash and burn pretty exactly at times yeah um you know so again I I don't want to get off the topic of you but I just want to to to to to mention that in all of our lives our bodies change sometimes hardly sometimes in our 20s sometimes later for a number of reasons but absolutely if you're listening to this you can do grief recovery work so that you can get it complete emotionally with your body right that is a huge huge one that you can do um because again we have hope streams and expectations for the future and when our bodies change or our health changes those yeah hope streams and expectations are on met and we have to know what to do with that pain otherwise we carry it and it gets very heavy right yeah thank you cool thank you well I want to thank you because um you know again I think uh again as a society um we're dealing with cancer I feel like a lot we ever have more and we know these tools can be beneficial when dealing with that sort of a terrifying experience right I mean I can't imagine what this has been like but to have things that can that can alleviate or or move the the emotion around or release the emotion it's like how would you not want that when you're dealing with that because the alternatives keeping that stuff bottled up and we know right because we've had doctors on we know that that is not good for the body that is not good in fighting cancer no in fact right and I don't I can't prove this right now uh and they're not really honestly willing to study this but um unresolved grief and how much unresolved pain you have and you're holding and trauma and grief well that that that cannot be good for cancer rates and that that I would say that just creates a very healthy environment for cancer to thrive right yeah yeah yeah there are lots of scientific research is about that nowadays we have a scientific um writing about that in Hungary um me and my colleague about that how okay grief affects uh health so yeah it's very important yeah no doubt about it um the other thing too I wanted to kind of unpack a little bit about what I loved about your story is um and I don't know if this was the word you used and if it doesn't feel like this is right tell me but you know you were saying I believe you know grief recovery allows you to be in the moment more right even during married exactly in your life right and being in the moment has turned into this cliche you know oh you just gotta be the moment you gotta be in the moment but guess what if we have a lifetime full of emotional pain that we're carrying around it's a lot easier said than done just knowing how to you know or developing the skill of truly being able to be in the present moment quickly and I remember even when Russell got cancer um he said the same thing he said wow this is really challenging my present moment skills right and I know he was doing stuff to get in the present moment but what touched me about your story was you you know you were saying even during this very very scary time for you you were able in the moment to find the gratitude you know to to to feel alive and to you know to even though right on paper you would be like why would anyone feel gratitude or or feel those kind of things right yeah yeah but I but I think that's that's another gift at least for me that has happened is the present moment skills I can develop in grief recovery allow me to find a lot more gratitude because I can you know that's where the gratitude comes is when you're in the present moment right yeah so good to just hearing you yeah I'm full of gratitude now at this present moment yeah I'm enjoying your company I'm okay that's for sure and again I I feel like it's been on my heart the whole call I'm like I'm flying out there and I want to give you hug in person yeah so let's see uh tell us if you don't mind tell us a little bit about what you are doing there in Europe you know kind of how is the institute growing you know what are you seeing specialists do in the in the region how is this helping you know frankly you're part of the world wow so now as I told you we have four I mean with me we have four trainers nice uh one of them she's living in Serbia in she's Hungarian speaking yeah uh one of them living in south part of Hungary in page uh one of them living in Budapest and me and now I train our fifth trainer she's on during her training now and we started to build up uh I think I gave only two training per year and now we have eight training per year good for you that that's a change yeah and it's full every training is full awesome I'm very grateful very grateful are you doing in person or online or a combination yeah it's interesting uh after the COVID they've started to interesting more online trainings I don't know why it's very strange so we have two in person and six online okay yeah that makes it about sense that's about our ratio to we're we're starting to do more and more in persons again but but still the online ones are really you know yeah yeah and it works yeah convenient and it works yeah yeah I'm old fashion I always prefer people to do it in person but I'd love that it works in online as well yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's it and we started to find um people who are eager to help reavers because for and during the first I don't know three or four trainings in Hungary a lot of people came psychologist teachers and I don't know social workers um um preachers lots of people came but after that they didn't stop to help reavers we don't know why so we can't tell them that you have to help everybody will help when he or she just feeling had the feeling that's okay I will have but now we try to find those people who will actually eager to help yeah so I I just put a kind of I don't know a training interview before the training yeah yeah and we put and and we give priority for those who we actually find that they're eager to help I don't know is it clear or yeah yeah yeah no I think that's really that's very interesting um it's very interesting yeah yeah and we find them and the ratio at the beginning for they only 30% started to help with this method we didn't know why exactly and I think now we are around 60 or 70% who really started to how and working with the method who became very active and that's the point I think so so that's we we try to find them I love that now is it what is it the same professions that come just different mindset um are you training different professions that that end up doing different professions okay around half of the people in the training are psychology stores psychiatry store counselors but the other half is you know I don't know a bit of kind of different yeah professionals yeah okay okay I got and lots of lots of youngsters came who before finishing the college nice and I love that I loved that so cool I love them so yeah that that makes me that makes me very very hopeful for the future yeah yeah yeah and you know again shameless plug if you're listening to this podcast and you are interested in this method there are several ways that you can access this method right we're talking about getting certified which is kind of the the the the the most uh again that that allows you to do your own personal work and then we empower you and teach you how to help other people and for some people that's great but other people just want to do their own work and so you can go on our directory or if you're in Hungary or in in Europe you can go on a mokeys again touch with the mokeys and you can find people we have trained and you can work with them either one-on-one you can work with them in a group they're called grief recovery methods specialists you can work with them in person if they're in your area you can work with them online if they've you know if they're trained and certified to work on the online portion um and you know again we're biased but we think everybody on the planet should go through the method right locally uh do the personal work learn the personal work and again if you are or you could get the book and learn the method through the book uh and and but any of those avenues will teach you this thing we call the grief recovery method you can apply it in your life regularly not not that you need to every week but when you have big life events that come up when you have trouble in living relationships as you have people who you loved who have died as you have um health issues or things with your body or as you retire and your career is changing right or you move to a new town these are all things you can you can help get emotionally complete with so that you can like you put it a mokey see the color of the leaves as vividly as possible so you can listen to music and really really appreciate it so you can be back in the present moment more than you ever were before uh these are the benefits of grief recovery right these are the things that um get college kids interested in it right and go oh you mean you know this can actually enhance the equality of my life and the answer is yes it can and sometimes frankly we don't know how much unresolved grief has has weighed us down until we unpack it and then we get to see sure how vivid life can be right um um um um um um mokey i just love you i'm a huge fan of you your work your team out there keep doing what you're doing well how can people find you if they want to work with you or your team how you know what's the best place to find you my friend um let's place to find you go to your website and find try to find the Hungarian flag okay got you come to our website and then there's a Hungarian flag okay and then you can put your website in the show notes as well so you could go there or we'll link directly to you yeah there are link the live act yeah that's true yeah and one just one small thing that uh i'm a professor only one university it's not so big deal but not a lot of university only second university in my hometown just that's it that's so important that's verification yeah i don't i don't want to see bigger than i am no i don't want to miss represent that i appreciate that i'm okay so yeah sure if you are if you are in uh that region Hungarian speaking um please please please get in touch with the mochi uh you know she's again she will she will put you on the right track to empower you to have tools or heal from stuff you have um and again on behalf of my dad and Russell i just want to thank you for you know the book translation and all the incredible work that you're doing over there again your dream come true that we found you and and and and keep doing what you're doing in any way we can help we will and i appreciate your time again i'm sending you a hug over the loss of your dad um thank you thank you and you know i continue to send you hugs too like and i just i i i'm so grateful that that um you are you are you know are beating the cancer so um the next step is we're figuring out a time for me to come out there and say hi to you guys please two thousand twenty six we are planning something okay i'm i'm sure that we just put a date somewhere so let's begin perfectly i love you cool i i love you i enjoyed really much with this conversation and i ask every griever's try to open their heart yes yes for for healing for healing yeah no that's a beautiful thing to put out and for you for all the listeners out there thank you for listening make sure you like this episode you share it if it was helpful to you you subscribe to the channel leave a review about the podcast we really really need to get the word out there to everybody that this work is is available right so please do that for us again until next time thank you for tuning in and have a great day or evening whenever you're listening and we'll see you next time thank you