Emotional Breakthrough: How One Couple Healed Their Marriage with Grief Recovery

He was like have you heard about this and I was like what is that? So his pastor actually is a huge proponent of grief recovery so that's how he was exposed to it. I read the purple book and immediately I was just signed up for certification like the next week. Okay wow okay so the book yeah it's because I always love this story so so your pastor recommended the book and then the book just spoke to you.

The book it spoke to me it it was almost like it gave me language and so it gave me language for what I was feeling and what and why I was feeling what I was feeling. I had also lost my mom and so it was just a hard time for me and it was a hard time for us as we were married because we just couldn't get together we couldn't communicate so when I went and got certified he actually I came back home from certification and my husband has seen such a change in me that he went and got certified next. Wow I love that. I had done a 360 cold.

Yeah I didn't think oh go ahead no go ahead but so I didn't think that there was much of a need for me to do it you know I knew I heard the word grief and I'm like you know I really haven't personally lost anybody so it's perfect for her I know it'll be great for her but when she came back I was like wow this is a little bit more than just grief as I know it and as I understand it I said maybe I think I want to I want to do this too let me see this is about because she literally this was a transformative hotel in the whole truth it's okay that it was literally a transformative experience she went from aggressive and a little just very agitated to very open and aware and loving almost within how long was it training like five days five days it changed my life and I was I was disconnected I was bitter I mean I I was just it was just so much and then when I came back and I was like hi everyone come give me a hug they were like what what is going on I was like let's hug it out I love you guys so much I was a cool lady mom I'm like I'm with the back I'll I'll find something you're like oh no my wife joined a cult that is amazing so let me just say this for for the audience maybe people are new to this work right I know at times this sounds like it can't be possible you know I mean we get emails all the time that says how can you certify people in four days you know you can't teach people stuff in four days or you know like Gwen like you can't produce results like that and and I got I don't know what to tell you but we see this all the time you know grief recovery really can be the missing link for a lot of people and it can unlock things and and shift stuff in your heart to where it is like night and day for a lot of us coming out of it other people it's a more subtle thing and they kind of see the results you know to without the in the coming weeks or the coming months but some people on the Monday of the four day training they will physically look different some people just report this my life will never be the same or I feel lighter like a lot lighter you know again the results we never try and promise what the results are but you know often the results are miraculous like that so I'm not you know I love that that was your story Gwen I'm not surprised because we have seen that before and you know what I think is so unique about the two of you and Alfonso again I just want to give you credit as the husband as the the male to to be like hey I'm supportive of my wife and that's so cool that she's doing that to then signing up you know because I think that's really I'll just be blunt I think that I think that all all come all couples should go through grief recovery right now I think all all husbands should go through grief recovery and I'm fine if the wife because usually it's about 80% 20% male or female in our training sometimes 70% 30% but it's always female you know the the women that who who are willing to do this first and I'm good with that but I love that you got certified later and you know I just that that is the most ideal outcome in my opinion when someone gets certified in a couple that the other that the other person bare minimum goes through the method if they want to get certified too great but if they just want to go through the methods so that you guys can be on the same sheet of music I know for me and Ashley that has absolutely allowed us to have a healthy long term marriage you know and we would have had so many rocky points and I don't know where we'd have been if both of us didn't have these tools right and I know we'll get into why here in a second I also am so excited to talk to you about how this method equipped you with some new tools as parents you know because that's my truth too right now so anyway let's let's turn it back to you guys so you know you you you see the change in Gwen Gwen you know your words were amazing just in terms of how you felt coming out of it um and and and so Alfonso you go right now now you guys have the same kind of again you have the same tools you now have the same language so where did it go next for you guys um because again we don't we we'll probably get into what you guys are doing professionally with it but I think it's so valuable for the audience to see what you guys did as a couple so what was next you're both certified now and you're kind of implementing these tools in your own hearts right so take it from there if you don't mind so we're implementing these tools individually but also in our marriage and so what a lot of people don't know cold about us is that before we ever opened um the wellness center we actually did a lot of personal work grief recovery was one of them and then we went to these marriage seminars we wanted to make sure any cobweb anything we had enough to need to be worked out was worked out before we went to try to help other people so when we went to one of these marriage seminars or retreats or whatever you call it was actually a certification we did our homework and then we were like ah this is good but we actually did and of course we don't recommend this but but we're both certified specialists what we did was we knew we needed to go deeper and we actually did the relationship graph on each other individually at that retreat we went separate places did the relationship graph wrote the letter came back and read the letter to each other there was so much unresolved grief in our marriage from the beginning we just had our 20 year anniversary this January yay but it was hard it was so hard in the beginning so but we thought we had kind of worked through that we were like always over we forgive each other talk about being incomplete talk about the unresolved grief I mean we read each other the letters and we like just healed so many different things that we honestly didn't even know we're there if we had not have had that tool of that relationship to actually kind of walk us through that whole relationship allow us to see big picture I love River Kirk I'm a stock stock because I it was just it was just the opportunity to be able to hash it out note have the tool to understand like okay we need a hammer for this yes and we were able to hammer out each instance and know what to do with that know that there's apologies and forgive the significant emotional statements within each of these elements of our lives you know that sometimes build up with resentment but being able to in that moment sit there and and say you know what we need to we kind of need to go deeper and and let's do this and understanding that as we're doing this it's it's not coming from a standpoint of like I'm shooting darts at you but there's there's a sincere there's a heart here and we understand that in order to get to where we need to be we need to get to the heart of the issue and the grief recovery method and this relationship graph and this letter was it yeah and it yeah it was like literally literally we're we're here sobbing in this this hotel room and I'm like this is not what this was supposed to be but it was useful and it was helpful and it again it just really set the stage for how we move forward and how we even now move as a as a couple as a yeah yeah yeah there there thank you for for telling that story there's so much to unpack right it's like one of the things that just amazes me time and time again is specifically one of the tools we use called the relationship graph right and you guys just touched on it but you know you like actually and I are together around 20 years as well and and you know stuff accumulates right when we're living day in and day out and you got stress and you guys are trying to grow as individuals and grows a couple you know things accumulate and those like you said those cobwebs will cobwebs build up and you know sometimes we may consciously be able to sort out you know one issue or that issue but when you go no no I want you to chart from the very first day you ever met this person until present day I want you to find all of the happy all of the sad all of the things that we wish could have been different better more all the hopes dreams and expectations that we have for the relationship did they get met did they not you know when you ask someone to be that thorough and write it down not just kind of go back and forth in our head you know sometimes before bed or when we're driving you know but when you can help people thoroughly review everything it is so powerful right and specifically in in romantic relationships and marriages like it is such a huge tool I've graphed Ashley Ashley has graphed me right and like you guys said we get to get emotionally complete with what is unfinished so we can move forward and have have the relationship be what we want it to be I mean like you know when you think about it what makes me sad is how many couples live their whole lives and never get to communicate all of this stuff yeah right I mean 20 30 40 50 years under the same roof right and and care about each other and love each other but just don't have the tools to explore what was unfinished so they can get complete with that so they aren't carrying it around right so these these these arguments don't you know come up annually or you know every couple of years or whatever because we get to complete the stuff we need to right so how cool that you guys did that you know you both did the work on each other and and that is what we recommend we you know again we don't recommend exactly like how they did but but we do recommend graph your spouse do the completion work on your spouse each of you do that um and you know and there's some other stuff I think we'll get into but you know I want I want to ask you guys this you know in the training both of you guys learn some new communication tools different ways to emotionally paraphrase people that you care about or people you're working with how did the just practical everyday interactions improve with grief recovery in other words did you guys have better skills and tools at how to communicate with each other after the training I feel like it gave us space and grace to understand each other a little better as it relates to understanding that there is some type of history that has caused these these reactions there's there's there's there's sterves that are being that are currently happening I'm like okay I think I understand where this might be happening um but for for me honestly the biggest thing was just being able to have some type of framework some type of idea when I see things that I don't attack like I have to understand that this this is coming from a place because I've been through the process as well so I need to understand for her and give her that time and and especially as it relates to you know grieving alone or being strong I know that I'm not going to allow her to grieve alone like I know when she pulls away now that okay I need to I need to you know approach as opposed to pull back when times I would pull back letter okay give her some time and into the honest at times she may need time but at least her before that happens I'm addressing and saying beg what's what's going on as I know your little distance do you need anything or even being strong you know I'm not going to let you be strong for for somebody else we understand that that's that's a myth it's not good so these like these these I think they feel like small things were there so huge as it relates to being identified in people and then find them each other and then be able to address it real time so it doesn't fester and turn into something so much larger yeah and emotional honesty like yes it took our communication from something that was almost very scripted in surface because when you don't understand or you're angry or you're just you know established a war zone then you guys can become enemies so you're not communicating but when you come when we got certified we were like oh we need to come this is what we teach so many couples we need to communicate from an emotional space like from a heart space and not a head space a lot of the work we do in reforecovery is to get us out of our heads and into our heart so ability for us to communicate from a space of emotion I felt this when you happen you know and to really share emotions and I mean honestly somebody can be so you can we can be mad at each other but when I'm coming to you saying that you know my heart hurts or I'm disappointed that this didn't happen like I'm using feeling words I'm communicating from my heart what can he say there's no defensiveness there there's no walls there like it breaks out every wall yeah bingo I let yeah let me let me share a brief story on this topic so I remember me and Ashley went to the same certification together and you know and my dad knew that my wife had some work to do and so she you know anyway we don't have a lot of time for this but anyway our first certification was together in the same thing so we were starting to implement the tools coming out of the training in our relationship you know days after obviously the training but I remember I don't know maybe a month or two after the training we had gone out to dinner with a couple of different friends over the course of a couple of weeks and she kept doing this thing that was hurting my feelings like I kind of almost felt like the butt of a joke in in both of these dinners and as a guy my first reaction was to get angry and to want to attack her right but I paused and I said you know what I'm going to tell the truth about myself which is what I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna lead with being emotionally honest so well instead of attacking her and saying hey why do you keep doing this what's not cool blah blah blah right and just going you know at her instead I said hey you know what I don't know if if if you're aware of this but when you you know when you say this joke it hurts my feelings and I feel about this big and I'm embarrassed when when when you say those things right and because she loves me and because she she didn't mean to you know in that in that in this sense she she just said I had no idea she yet I won't ever say that again I didn't even I didn't know that that right and and now we're we're we're closer as a couple because like you said it's very hard for the spouse to feel attacked when you're just coming from how you felt when this thing happened and then that gives them an opportunity to you know either say you know what I didn't even know that that that was hurtful to you because a lot of the time that's what happens right a lot of the time we get we get our toes stepped on it they don't even know that that's a hot button hot button for us and so you know now again there are sometimes when we do try and step on each other's toes and we got we got you know we got tools for that too but in this case right in this case it was just simply she didn't know that this story she kept saying actually hurt my feelings and instead of going right away to attacking her I just told the truth about how I felt she she apologized and then we move past that right and I was like oh wow I was you know these tools do work in the marriage right and we kept applying them so anyway thank you for that and I just wanted to kind of for the audience spell out just a practical example of what you're talking about right because the emotional communication that you just touched on Gwen is huge it's like if you start paying attention to how much communication we do intellectually as adults you know it's 90 plus percent probably is just talking to each other from here but a lot of the time we're actually trying to talk from our heart and you know and you're and let's say the wife is trying to speak from a heart the guy doesn't hear it so he replies from his head right and then you know the wife's being not heard right or vice versa doesn't really matter but but again what grief or cover does is break down and help teach people was that an emotional communication or an intellectual one does this person need to hear me from the heart or we problem solving up here and if you can at least even have the awareness as a husband or a wife on it what is my spouse trying to communicate emotions here do I just need to hear him or her or you know are we up here talking up here right and and just like that was such a gift for me to be able to actually communicate with Ashley a lot of the time when she just wants to you know she's just trying to communicate something emotional for her right yeah and it's so powerful that's another thing I learned from we learned from grief or cover it out the first thing I have to say to this call is that nobody's teaching us this stuff right right right like nobody's giving us these tools no society isn't teaching us about emotional honesty communicating from a place of emotional honesty that's number one but second of all what you learn from the method is for some it's the first time but how feeling heard not just being heard there's a difference in being heard and feeling heard and that is a game changer relationally yes I mean I really professionally I mean on any platform but like grief recovery really does teach you the power of just feeling heard if it's healing in that alone yep couldn't agree more yeah yeah and and why don't you can you give some examples of how you learn to to actually you know what what's how do you how does that translate in a practical way right how do you how do you allow someone to really feel heard or like let's say alfonso when you're listening to him how do you how do you do it to where you just hey my gift to him right now is just make sure he feels heard how do you do that um so eye contact when he's talking um like just looking at him and being locked in and listening um active listening I'm kind of engaging and then not into one thing I was a huge thank you yes let's stay here for a while to interrupt but when you go through grief recovery you're literally trying to sit and listen you know sometimes for 30 30 minutes oh yeah yeah the age of individual but yeah yeah and you don't I mean there's a thing in council is called the tongue and teeth method so I really sometimes where I was kind of by my tongue you know gently to like make sure that I let him finish and that really was a sign of honor and respect for him that I was completely unaware of yeah I that has been huge for us too because Ashley is in an interruptor too and and there there is nothing more for us trading for me than when I can't get two sentences in a row in because because my wife is just jumping in there right and and we've definitely had some battles over that yeah and and you know and again the the way we we teach it is we just call it just be a heart with ears and no mouth right because uh what happens is in society like you said we not only don't teach the people the tools we're talking about well we do worse we teach them a bunch of tools that are unhelpful right so we teach society hey if you can just give them your keen advice at every at every at every breath of the conversation you know that's how you provide value to your friend is you've got to just tell them intellectually how to fix it or how to not feel bad or how to compare it or let's minimize it or let's you know let's let's look on the bright side you know and all of that is emotionally irrelevant when we're hurting and so you know we're we're and again a lot of the other time we're well intention but the problem is is when you're trying to fix people that haven't even been able to tell anybody that they're hurting you're in the wrong part of the story yeah right that's good and uh so that gift that you're giving each other is so huge right it's like I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna hear my husband and he's gonna communicate without interruption so that he can sort out how he does feel about it right and um and then all of a sudden you give him this tremendous gift maybe he got more clear on where he is struggling and he felt hurt right and and you're and you're right and again let's let's take couples out of this if you are at the supermarket you run into a friend that you know is hurting if you're on the the plane and you meet a stranger next to you and you start talking about real stuff anywhere you are if you can just be a heart with here with ears and no no such a gift because you you are probably the first person in the last you know couple of months who didn't have an opinion after again every pause in the conversation who didn't want to you know kind of jump in there and tell you why it could have been worse or it's not that bad or you know hey let's let's replace the loss or all the stuff we do so um no I love that I love that um okay cool so in terms of couple advice what else from the method do you guys want to kind of talk talk about in terms of the relationship and how it's helped so I would say self-awareness when you know yourself when you know like the lost history graph the relationship graph it really helps you it reveals and identify patterns and it helps you understand what your wife is and what I mean that is like behavior I am like this because so when I came back and could communicate that you know you know I was in communicates to him I was in this relationship and he was kind of verbally abusive and I had kind of set an unset spoken rule when I got out of that relationship but I would never let anybody talk to me like that again so before I left and went to training he would say you already know what I'm gonna say he would be like come now and I would I would go through the roof like what did I say what does that like but the hip-hop you ever knew why we're talking years of this call like you never knew why but when I went to the training and I did that work I did both of those graphs I ever understand first of all that that event affected me more than I knew that it changed me in ways that I could not have imagined and you know I had developed the belief system behind that thing that I'm operating from that's not helpful but but that doesn't mean it was wrong though that's the beauty of the method it teaches you to be safe within your feelings when you have the emotional honesty but now I have language I can say you know what I respond this way when you do that because I went through this and and I'm working on it or this is what you know I learned from it but I learned this about me and it's important that you understand this about me for this relationship to continue in a healthy way yeah that's that's such a great example because again how many couples are struggling with exactly this stuff if we are you know if we're emotionally complete with past relationships we are bound to bring that energy into our current relationship right yeah you know what the the way we call it as we call this stimulus right so when Alfonso said you know calm down or whatever the the stimulus is you being unfinished with the with the abuse of guy and you vowed to never let anyone you know be critical of you no matter what and and if they do I have to go to red alert code 15 you know to defend myself right and and it's like well that gets hard to live with especially if you don't know why you're suffering the consequences of an abusive guy if from the past right a lot of the time too like I see this as well as you know in couples if somebody has been cheated on or someone was unfaithful to someone and they are they are you know they are unfinished with emotionally that kind of damage that that happened then all the sudden right that that can carry over too and there can be like you know intimacy being affected or again just just all this stuff but but you know again to get back to that example because I think that's so powerful the way that we would address that angry for covering right and I'm going I'm sure you did we we need to go and grieve and complete what is unfinished in that past relationship therefore the stimulus will feel different because right we can separate out that that relationship from Alfonso and you know the goal is and like you said it's not overnight and so you may still as that stimulus is still charged you may say hey I'm working on this but please you know this why I'm reacting this way but the goal right with grief for curries after a while when Alfonso says you know calm down or whatever right there isn't the charge there there isn't the trigger there that that it was before right because before it's not a choice right we just have to go kind of we just have to react but when we do the grief recovery we can kind of catch it and be like oh this is Alfonso the man I love this ain't that guy back then that's that wasn't his intention and that stimulus shouldn't be the same right there shouldn't be the same charge there right and and yeah hugely hugely helpful in marriages and in relationships right yeah and it gives you your power bet yeah right like you finally you can feel powerless behind the inability to control your reaction to a thing or not knowing why they guilt like the cycle is the stimulus happens I'm reacting and then there's guilt because like why did I do that why didn't need to do it to that you know intensity I didn't need to do all of that or I'm too much think then you get the whole you know the self sabotage all these things come as a result of that but when you can say this is this is why this this event happened to me but I'm complete now like I can take my power back it's like you face a giant grief recovery yeah you get to like slay it and then you get your power yeah yeah and you know it's like some some of the stuff we we can apply to our relationships can be very dramatic like the you know the stuff you mentioned some of it can be like a little bit more subtle like I realized at some point I had to do some grief recovery work on my first relationship I ever had you know it was like you know we're 15 years old there's not a worry in the world you know it's this idealistic perfect like both first boyfriend and girlfriend and it's like flash forward to I'm in a marriage we have a mortgage we have kids there's all this drama and stress right and I'm comparing this relationship to the stress-free you know a relationship when I you know my first relationship and that's not fair because it's like it's it's not the same moment in time or there's all different scenarios there but again if if if I'm if I'm comparing my current relationship to past relationships in different moments in time and you know it's just it's not fair to my wife it's not fair to my my current relationship for for the bar to be this like expectation or this idea of some other relationship that was frankly just an easier kind of again kind of puppy love type relationship does that make sense yeah and so I think a lot of the time that's what people do right is they they develop these expectations that are unrealistic based on things are unfinished with before from other relationships right and they try and compare you know past positive parts of the relationship with other people to this person that didn't get the memo or just isn't this person right and it's you know so again I think it's good to complete both the good and the bad of past relationships so we can give our current relationship the all and the respect that our partner deserves which is hey this this person is an individual and it is not fair for me to be comparing them to past relationships on you know this this and this because it that's that's a different person right yeah definitely you know so so again it it is but and sometimes you can come to this stuff just again just thinking about it but but relationship graphs and getting very thorough and very complete with stuff I think is the key where I haven't seen a lot of I haven't really seen other any other programs that are thorough like our work in terms of you know getting emotionally complete with what you need to see can be present for what is right now yeah and it's a structure and the structure of this is step one this is step two and it builds on top of each other that is so helpful and it gives people hope because sometimes even even with talk therapy it's not bad you get kind of an emotional release and it helps but to be able to say you know this these aren't the steps to you know completeness or and then the education piece that we do in the beginning we're like let me untie you let me help you unlearn everything society has taught you about yeah exactly I mean it's just so it's just so helpful to have something you know a system like I don't know I feel like people really kind of learn from especially if they're visual learned it's like they really can like to be able to have a graph that you can see you'll be able to have you know a tool that you know the next step is we're not just kind of winging it like the next step is pre-play and the pre-thought out yep if you'll say for people it feels safe exactly right you get you you're providing a roadmap right and yeah and it's yeah and it takes the pressure off of the person right because a lot of the time when you're expected to just sit across the room and and kind of just like let go and figure out exactly what you need to talk about there's a lot of pressure but when you can kind of indirectly just be like hey let's put pen to paper and here's a very linear linear way to look at this stuff and we're just telling the brain to to find significant stuff right and then all of a sudden you're like wow I've found a lot of the stuff right yeah yeah it takes the guesswork out of it takes a pressure off it relieves overwhelm it helps on so many levels so many levels yeah so if if you guys are okay with that the other thing I really love about your guy's story is kind of in the pre-interview we were talking about and this is a passion for me and kind of my my part in in my timeline in my life but just you know being able to teach this to our children right being able to kind of parent with these skills right so can you guys talk a little bit about what that's been like for you has been huge coming from we we started early so that was definitely a huge plus that we were able to start out there but just being able to have those conversations with the kids about what are you feeling it's for me as a male and understanding about the emotions of you know we're we're taught that having emotions is not okay yeah it's not okay to cry we that's stuff that we don't do but having that tool and that awareness early for my children it was huge to allow I have a 16 year old son in the 18 year old daughter so being able to allow them you know what it's okay I'm not I'm not going to tell you to stop crying yeah let's let's talk through like it talk talk through the tears it was my trainer so he talked through the tears like you're not gonna stop talking but it's so it's okay to cry because crying is a natural form of emotion yeah we need to cry sometimes so for for my kids being able to allow them that space to express themselves where before you know we were feeling like okay you gotta stop that crying you know culturally we we talk at eight suck it up let's let's move on don't do it yeah but I feel like for our kids that opened up a door for us as they grew to now whether it's crying or just talking about their feeling this is what happened today at school and this is how I'm feeling about it I feel like it opened up a such a huge door that allowed us to be able to handle things that could have gotten way out of hand before they got out of hand yeah whether it's bullying whether it's how they feel out a girl or a boy yeah um these are conversations that we were able to have as parents on the front end because our kids were so comfortable opening up because they knew that number one we were gonna listen yeah number two we weren't gonna judge and we're not gonna criticize or try to fix or try to and granted this tough as parents because we especially as a dad when a dad and a daughter you know my that's my daughter now if I see something coming around around the bend that I know is not good I'm I'm coming at it yeah ever I do also understand that she she's developing herself and I can't try to fix everything in the moment yeah because when that happens now she's not gonna come to me yep she's gonna try to talk to her friends about what's going on and her friends I'm gonna give her the best advice she doesn't know either yeah but at least navigate it together it is created such a a beautiful um relationship and and I'm just in forever and then and Ed taught me this in um in training and this one thing changed it was such a game changing I stole it this I'm telling this right at home I told you started using it too this changed the trajectory now granted she could have only been I was trying yes she was young she was young thank god they were young go ahead I'll tell you why but he is a statement he said is that I love you for who you are right where you are and let me tell you I have used that statement a hundred of times and I feel like it is actually helped mold my daughter into who she is who my son into who she is because there's many of times where like no you're gonna do exactly what I say how I say do it because that's what kid that's what children do yeah but understanding that one that one concept yeah so I mean it built trust help us build trust with our kids it helped us build safety with our kids but it also so caused us to look at them like the humans that they are absolutely yeah people minimize yeah the value of kids they steal their voices and they don't allow them to feel they teach them not to feel and I was on that track like this is why this work I'm so passionate about it and every time I'm taking somebody through a group or a one-on-one I'm saying I'm not I'm like let me tell you how I got certified I had to walk through it myself I'm not telling you what I think or what I read I'm telling you what I know because I had to walk through it first that's how they trained me and so but when I went okay so I didn't grow up with a lot of you know like love was displayed in my home by they were present they were they were provide but there wasn't a lot of affection there wasn't a lot of hugs and never and I love you and my mom she was like a trainer like I was in boot camp and she'll she you know just tough but and I had started on that same track with my daughter but when I got trained I came back and I realized that there was such an emotional disconnection like this child like he says eight or nine never been hugged I wasn't super affectionate as a mom so I am able to connect with her heart to heart now but I literally had to hug her for like 10 seconds a day when I came back from training to to acclimate her to affection wow wow I am so grateful for her that you found the these tools when you did right I mean that was so powerful what you just said where you like I had to hug her to acclimate her to that affection that I wanted to give her um and let me just say this but I want to hear from you guys so I'm just want to interject real briefly just like I had to go do a bunch of work on past romantic relationship so that I could clear that stuff to be present for my current relationship as parents we need to go clear what's unfinished with our parents and and what our parents gave us and some stuff was great and we get to keep that and then when we let go of the other stuff we can also break this cycle or change the cycle or make adjustments based on how we want a parent right and so you know that's another piece of this was and that's the reason I bring it up is that's what I heard I heard love when you were talking about your mom I heard the positives that were there but again none of us are our perfect we're going to be graphed hopefully by our kids down the road and they're going to want to find tune how they parent right so again this isn't about beating up mom and dad unless our mom and dad really messed up but you know and and we can help get complete with that too but but a lot of the time we can honor what we liked about what mom and dad teach us and then and then put down the other stuff that that we don't want to bring into our you know into our parenting so I love that story about you hug and your daughter for that you know for for just to kind of be like hey I'm going to do this different this part yeah and it I mean it was such a game changer for me I'm interrupted that cycle I mean you're talking about generational impact where we talk about this work I mean and that's a lie I'm so passionate about it because because we went where we be I was able to pivot as a parent and implement some of these tools and our daughter has such and high a high emotional intelligence that oftentimes her friends don't understand yeah yeah I mean there was a friend that I mean no harm it people aren't taught and we tell them people aren't taught these things but you can teach them and she had to tell her you know look this is how I feel and you have to stop telling me how I feel how I should feel or what I shouldn't should not feel and and on some of her hardest hardest days um I don't have told us you know I wrote a letter and I'm okay then so like we were able to let her know that you know these are some things you can do to give yourself this release that you need and I mean I understand I mean I love journaling all that is great and it has its place but the way that grief recovery letter is structured and to be able to kind of teach her that and I I understand you know that we don't really do grief recovery teenagers but at the same time it was so powerful for her because she took it on and she wrote she writes she's written a couple of years yeah yeah yeah and you know and the way that I think the way we put it is journaling is great because you're gonna it'll it's a great awareness piece right journaling I can I can become aware of stuff I need to become aware of but it's not completion yeah and that's that's what our letter does and that's what our work does is we're guiding people towards emotional completion with a moment in time with a relationship with an event you know if we are unfinished we need to get complete you know and and so that's I I would say that's the difference between journaling which again I've done myself I think it's very helpful but the problem is is most a society that's where they'll stop just journal right and the problem is I'm kind of just stirring it up and affirming it right I'm not I'm not getting complete with it I'm not moving forward from it um the other thing that that I was thinking of you when you were telling me the story um of of your daughter was number one what a gift you guys have where your kids can emotionally communicate with both mom and dad you know do you know how rare that is in this world where they can emotionally communicate with mom or dad as you know a lot of a lot of kids unfortunately can't with either sometimes we can communicate with them with dad a mom but definitely not dad right so to be able to have you know that's what we're trying to create in our home as well uh you know where they can come to either of us and sometimes they definitely choose to come to mom right and I love that she has these tools and then but but Alfonso you know I'm going to be calling you in the future because my my little girl's eight but I can relate to what you're saying you know I I'm sure it's not easy once they start getting into the age range as your kids are in so I'm maybe calling you guys for advice but you know I want to say this to the parents out there you know parents are so motivated to help their kids okay but here's the hard truth and I hate to say this and I wish it was not this way but you know we offer a program called helping children with loss and I love that program and as a parent you can come get helpful tools to help with your kids but if you're emotionally incomplete with a lifetime full of losses apparent you're gonna have a real hard time implementing those tools with your kids if you haven't gone first and they're gonna have a real real hard time trusting you as the leader if they know that you haven't gone first okay so my advice would be definitely take that when children agree of course but immediately after that course go go take our eight week group program or go work with one I want but start emotionally completing what is unfinished for you in your life and beautiful beautiful stuff can happen when you start leading from the front meaning you do your work and you know and your kids will see it they'll read it on you you know just like Alfonso Son Gwen when she came back from that training he read it you know kids are 10 times more you know observant than me or Alfonso will ever be with our wives you know kids kids there the way they read nonverbal they the way they can see someone being incomplete emotionally is on a like master level you know and like you said Gwen we don't give them credit but they're way far advanced compared to us right and in so many ways that that matter that count and if you can just allow them to continue on that track without getting in their way as adults and you know forcing them to live up here intellectually all the time what a gift right what a gift to allow them to continue being emotional processing plants versus what we usually do by adulthood we've turned you into an emotional storage unit and we don't want to hear the sad stuff we don't want to hear the painful stuff just stuff it down to the corners of your heart and in your tummy and you know and what happens right we go on a bunch of a bunch of places that aren't good you know because of that as a society and I when we go through the grief recovery method and when you go through it yourself I love how you said that Cole because you literally create space and increase your capacity to love and to you know you're like you're creating room within your heart because you're clearing out all that gunk it's like a clogged pipe and now things can flow naturally and it's yeah in saying how it will change you emotionally behaviorally relationally on so many levels yeah it's you know it's it look if you want to do something really sad one day go sit go sit outside the playground and watch you know first graders play and then you know the next research re uh what is this next thank you recess you know go watch third graders and then go watch six graders and you can just see them emulating their parents where life just beat them down you know and by the by they're in six grade they look like they're 45 years old because you know and again uh I'm not trying to criticize I just want to help us as a society as a people it's like if you can remain open if you can process your stuff so life doesn't beat you down and and and you know if we cannot be a shell of our former self because we know how to get complete with past hurt you know I can see it in you all fun so I can see you it and Gwen you know it's like you guys and me and all these people that are doing grief recovery we refuse to let life just pummel us down to nothing right we still want to live with joy and excitement and being open and we don't need all this body armor to protect ourselves from the next hurt because we've processed all that other stuff and it's like if if you lead that way you're you're giving your kids such a gift because then they have permission to stay open they have permission to stay excited about life you know and and and and again like like you're doing Gwen and then you start sharing some of these tools and then they know how to actually get emotionally complete with stuff because look there if you guys think that uh kids are are just aren't grieving when grandma dies or the first dog dies you you're mistaken right you guys know kids start grieving up four or five years old they start experiencing life and and and and we can start helping them process it right then and there so they don't accumulate what we do you know by the time they're 40 yeah and to be able to know to have the training and awareness to know that when your child loses a friend and not say oh you can just get another friend or when the dog dies just get another dog to be able to say I remember our child lost what a hamster or something and I mean she was devastated and we just kind of literally we knew what to do we knew what not to say we knew to give her space and we're like okay do you want to bury it do you want to write a letter about this or to this like how do you need to get complete with this what is this for you because we could get another hamster which the general parent would do but to replace that loss but to give her space to process that loss and to understand what that relationship meant to her because it's a relationship yeah animals with their dog babies with their friends and these are all individual relationships and so we teach them how to understand what that loss like means for you and to really figure out what might be unfinished and then give them that tool to close that door of a couple yeah and then for us for me as a dad that understanding that everyone grieves at 100% yeah doesn't matter for you to 22 or 200 and to when you grieve it's 100% so that's kind of what helped me as a father come down to the level of if it's a missing crayon the reason why you're screaming is because the grief for you is the same as if I lost the parent right yep it's it's 100% so I can't minimize what's happening in my child at that moment so when when I learned that it changed my perspective on every 10th of ten every single one so now instead of instead of just a stop stop no just go go to your room because you can't get together it's oh my gosh you lost your green it was green the green ground oh my gosh I'm so sorry like you know it's changed your perspective and it helps you deal with things on that level every time as it relates to kids and people yeah and you know and I want to I want to get your guys opinion on this right because I think a lot of people when they when they just hear you say a story like that or they've heard stories like that where I allow my kids to feel I think they have this preconceived idea that you'll turn these kids into you know they'll be crying all the time and they'll fall over and be in the fetal position all the time and like and if you're listening and you're not watching the video this like both Alfonso and Gwendolyn are shaking their heads no that's not the case and and that hasn't been the case for me because what you're doing is you're just hearing them and you're allowing them to process that and if you allow them the process that they're so in the moment they'll be done with it in two minutes it's when you send them in the room without hearing them and with minimizing their hurt now they have to do it then now they got to have that tantrum for an hour and a half to try and desperately get you to hear what they're feeling yeah and so you know don't if you start implementing these tools it doesn't you know because look the reality is is we want to allow people to emotionally process their emotional pain right but my 12 year old if he gets hit by a fastball I want him to look at that picture and say you didn't do anything and march down to first you know and and so you know the reality is we are trying to raise our kids with all the skills and tools that they need right and so look you know we're not trying to raise kids that are just falling over in the fetal position crying all the time but and I think people are scared that that's what will happen but that's not what happened my my 12 year old you know is a tough tough kid but when he has something emotional he needs to process it's okay to cry it's okay to tell the truth about what you're going through when grandpa was dying he was watching his dad me you know cry and he could cry too when his when our dog died like we were all just grieving as a family and he could look at dad and there were tears and dad's eyes you know those things are healthy and then you can also raise kids that can be tough for this world as well there's a balance there right and so I don't want people to take away from this and be like what kind of kids are you're producing we're producing kids that that have kind of all the gears they need for life and there you go you know so I just wanted to touch on that right and then the the other thing is Gwen with the hamster story right a lot of the time as parents like maybe we're not attached to hamster and and really it is just that kid grieving but a lot of the time with like if we lose a dog we're grieving too and a lot of the parent a lot of time parents want a short or kind of short circuit that or again be strong which means I can't show any emotion well you can try and be emotionally available as you want to your to your kids but if you're showing no grief about the reality is that you like to love that dog and that dog died then again you're not leading from the front so that's where we have a problem with be strong you know you mentioned that term earlier and I wasn't sure if if our new listeners will kind of understand what we're saying the problem is when when when we're told to be strong for others what that means is right what we take from that is be robotic show no emotion and pretend nothing happened right well our kids are really good at emulating what we do and so you can tell them everything you want but if they're watching your actions and your actions are be robotic pretend nothing happened right that's what they think grieving is and that's what they're going to do too right so again we just got to lead from the front um you know I have a buddy and he's so funny uh he's like really in the fitness right and all and all all my buddies and myself go to him for advice and we want to over complicate everything right it's like how's my 49 you know point training plan and you know and he's always like guys just lift heavy things three days a week and do that for a couple of years you know and you'll get results we want to over complicate everything so you know going back full circle in this conversation right it's like what do we what what do we do as parents and as spouses we need to learn how to emotionally tell the truth about ourselves all the time right we need to be a heart with ears and know how to listen and not judge compare minimize criticize you know tell them it could have been worse you know so just heart with ears right um and then and then we have some very simple tools and and and when it's right we can get into those tools tools as well right it's not hard it's not complicated we just got to get good at the basics yeah yeah i totally agree and i feel like sometimes people need to understand the dichotomy or the dangers of not doing oh yeah and as it relates to emotions that's what to touch on this real quick when we don't teach people or our children how to handle their emotions they're left to their own devices wow they're left to looking around them they're they're left to these self deprecating tools to express their emotions and then that's when we get involved then we get upset or we want to send them somewhere when we've never trained them how to deal with this emotion yeah we we haven't given them an outlet we haven't given them any type of tool so for anybody that's listening out there this is the reason why this is important because they're we we have emotions they're they're here everybody has them they're coming both good and bad how do you want your children to deal with the emotions that they don't know how to handle who do you want them to go to who do you want them to get lessons from about these emotions that they do not know how to handle do you want them to go drinks smoke porn all these these negative habits when there's a way that we can give them a tool that can help them just like it helps us yep to handle these emotions in a healthy way and they can become complete I'm so I'm so glad you brought that up Alfonso how powerful right they're going to find tools somewhere either from society or their friends who aren't equipped to share any tools that are helpful or they could pick up tools from you but but again that you have to walk the walk for them to want what you have right they're gonna you have to walk the walk for them to say you know what these tools at all my exposure all these tools out there in society clearly mom and dad what they have like those tools are working it you know and and like it's it's funny right my dad created a degree for recovery but I grew up in a society and and I placed more value at times on what society taught me than what my dad taught me right and I felt I fell into some really dark places in my life but I always knew it was possible to do it the right way right and finally when I was done messing up I I am so grateful that that my dad had always been that example for me my mom had been that example and when I was ready I knew the tools that would actually lead to a happy life and you know and I think that's what I heard from you Alfonso so thank you that was yeah super powerful Gwen do you have any kind of closing closing some thoughts here again I want to have you guys back for episode two I'm huge fans of your of you guys but any any closing thoughts before we wrap I guess I would just say that grief recovery is necessary and it's necessary for you to live in a healthy way individually I'll just speak for me it changed me personally then it changed us relationally and then it changed us parentally and I don't know if it changed us it equipped us to handle all of these different areas when you're dealing with laws I also want to point out that there's over 40 different types of laws and even when I became a parent one of the biggest things that I wanted to support women with is the fact that I had developed a loss of identity there's this whole set of intangible losses so don't narrow it down to death and divorce don't think that you don't need this because you haven't experienced those two things we're talking about loss of health moving loss of safety you know and huge loss of identity especially when we become parents so finding it's like finding your way home going through this process is like finding your way home and every week when you walk through this process this program you are I don't know if you guys have seen an article but you are pulling back layers and by the end of grief recovery once you find out what's unresolved what's unfinished for you what's incomplete with you and you complete that it's like you find your way back to your beating heart again because it's still in there and it's still beating but it's just got so much stuff around it so it's just so impactful and I cannot say this enough we're talking about generational influence generational change when you get better everything around you get better when you walk through this program and you are now free and you have capacity to be you know who you were truly designed to be now you can share this language you can pay it forward you won't make intellectual comments anymore you're going to be that compassionate that big listener that big heart with ears so I can't emphasize it enough it's a game changer it's necessary it is work though yeah yep well I'm right what in life that's valuable isn't work and and and this is just the part of that universal truth when Gwen thank you Alfonso talk to the guys tell tell the guys why they they need to look into this no pressure gentlemen yeah definitely definitely no pressure for you all but pressure it's necessary because the world looks to us there's a there's a weight on men to lead to have all the answers and also to show no emotion in the process however when we take the lead and showing who we are and how we feel that in turn has a ripple effect on everyone around us so I know there are guys that have been that have dealt with hurt that have bottled it up but grief recovery the grief recovery method is extremely helpful it can help you it can change you it changed me and again I wasn't one that I felt like I needed it so I know a lot of times we as men feel like we don't need things we can handle it ourselves but yeah how beautiful it is to have a tool men loves tools men love tools and this is a tool that you can use to help you cultivate and build a life not only that you will be happy with that will also create a ripple effect for your family yeah and all over the world oh beautiful do you let me ask you this do you think you'd have the relationship you do with your son and daughter if if you didn't have these tools I don't know not at all I was headed down a path where our daughters in college now and I don't even know she would call home yeah I said it makes me cringe that they got yeah we literally got chills when you said that yeah um no and I know that's true for me I am daily I am daily grateful for these tools you know that that I get to I I don't know where I would be as a spouse I don't know where I would be as a father without these tools I really don't and they continue they continue to amaze me in terms of the the bond and the intimacy that you can create in a family just by teaching everyone how to emotionally communicate their truth right and and uh you know again they're still there we got four kids so there's still a lot of there's still a lot of crying and hurt feelings and all of that but you know again like like you said alfonso like just have tools that are actually practical um that that you can implement right away it's such a gift so um I want to thank you guys again for your time I want to thank you guys on behalf of the grief recovery institute I know you guys help a lot of people using this method and I want to thank you on behalf of again everybody and my dad and Russell and all these people that came before me in this work thank you where can people find you if they want to work with you guys so please like let me know website or you know anywhere they can find you um so I'm Gondolin J Jones that's all of my social media and my website is Gondolin J Jones dot com so you can find me anywhere um there and and then for me so I actually do leadership development as well and all this is incorporated into all that leadership and personal development um it's tryfectaprim.com it's t-r-i-f-e-c-t-a-p-r-i-m-e tryfectaprim.com and you can find me on social outlets alpha on zoe jones the number two Instagram you to tick-tock all those okay and I have to say I have to say I'm sorry so he has taken the method with his podcast and blended it beautifully with leadership development he called it leaders aware oh yeah about the emotional awareness uh it's fantastic yeah and I like to normalize conversations around grief with my um podcast but it's about just normalizing these conversations and that we should be having them and it's not taboo and it shouldn't be uncomfortable absolutely right like obviously we just got done talking about marriage and we've gotten talking about raising kids that's leadership guys right and so it really doesn't make any difference if you are incomplete with a bunch of stuff and you're trying to lead a company it makes a lot of sense why that company was struggle if they can't look to their leader and say hey they have they have the capacity to uh to you know to make the tough calls and then also hey they're human beings and they they have emotions too and they're not afraid to show it that's a powerful leader right and and that's a good thing um oh so we're gonna link to all of those places uh in the in the show notes and the youtube channel and and in the podcast so again if you guys listen and you're inspired and and let's say you're a parent or let's say you want to work on some some of your relational work uh these these are just great great people that are highly skilled at this work so please look them up and uh and and reach out to them if you're looking to do some work and like Gwen said if you've been on the planet for longer than uh about five years uh guess what you qualify for a agree agree for karmie work and it will benefit you right and again a lot of us do think i don't know what to work on don't worry just sign up we'll help you we'll we'll help you find some stuff right um and so again thank you for listening to the feel free again podcast we're gonna have you guys back here soon um and again if you're listening please share this if this was helpful if you think this will be helpful to a loved one or a friend or somebody share it like it right or review that'll help us get found in other places because again you know unresolved grief emotional incompletion is an epidemic in our society yeah absolutely you guys talked about you generations being affected by unresolved emotional pain from their past and you know and and and we're all passionate we see that every day in this work and so please please please look into this for you or someone you love all right um with that said i hope you have a great rest of your day or evening and again thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time on the feel free again podcast okay