Why Unresolved Grief Is Behind So Much Pain (and How to Heal It) with Victoria Volk

But but again, Victoria, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for the opportunity, Cole. I'm excited to be here. Cool.

So usually how we get things going is if you are willing to tell us a little bit about how you came to find grief recovery and kind of what this work has been for you. The short answer is after 30 years of being a griever and not recognizing that grief was actually my problem and trying to bandate it with all sorts of other things like alcohol and terrible relationships and and you know the things that we resort to to feel better for sure a period of time. I had a couple more losses and a loss that really opened up my wound of my past so to speak. My uncle was diagnosed with brain cancer and he was the last second to last living sibling of my father who passed away when I was eight.

And so grief has been a part of my life since a very young age. My mother had lost her mother the year before my dad. I was the youngest of four kids so here she was left you know with raising these kids and lost the love of her life. And and then after that I was I was abused by molested by a family friend.

And so grief trauma is is my backstory. And so fast forward to 2017 I thought I was doing pretty well. I you know in the meantime I had in my early 20s I tried hyptotherapy that really didn't really do much for me. It did help me get clarity about a relationship to get out of.

So that was a good thing. But it didn't address my grief of course. And then fast forward into you know starting to have kids in 2017 six you know 2014-15. No it would have been 2017.

I had had a business a photography business for many years and started it when my youngest my second had been born. So they were young I was you know living the life of burning the midnight oil and trying to build a business and poured my heart and soul into it. And then my youngest came along and then she was going to kindergarten. And all of a sudden my identity of being a work at home on mostly state home mom and having this business everything was just kind of coming to there's like my midlife unraveling I so I call it.

And I started to really dive into personal development at that time seeking out resources books I started I just was looking for anything and everything to feel better to understand why I felt kind of crazy at the time. And then I started to have physical manifestations pain all over my body I had dropped a lot of weight just things that didn't have a root medical reason they couldn't find a cause. Again not recognizing that it was grief and trauma and all these things that were coming back to the surface after these big life changes I was experiencing because I ended up closing that photography business and pouring into personal development like I said and then I started blogging and writing what came out of that was I self published a book the guided heart. Nice.

And a couple of years that happens that's conversation with a friend and she said you wrote a book about grief didn't you and this business was a completely different business. And I said yeah I did and she was like why aren't you helping griebers. It was kind of a dog question like an aha moment and I'm like I like I personal experience with this like I I wasn't a really good place at that time so I thought tell another lost came around like I said my uncle and he was very close to my dad and I actually had when my dad passed that entire family was no longer in my life so I had not seen my uncle for 30 years and I went to the hospital to go see him not knowing if he would even recognize me want to see me or what how that would unfold but what did unfold was six months of reconnecting with my past and with the brother that my father loved so dearly and I felt more connected to my dad in that moment than I had all my you know growing up wow and that really changed a lot for me that really helped me to recognize that wow this this is what reason this is that wound that loss again that I'm peeling all over again that kind of felt like the same it was it was different but it still felt very similar to me and and then I had a friendship also that kind of fell away and someone I felt really connected to and like a kindered spirit and so then I googled grief I don't even know what the term was and the grief recovery institute grief recovery method came up and I'm like this is it this is how I'm going to help other people not even help myself I didn't even look at it helping myself it was like this is the answer this is how I can help other people and yeah I I signed up to certify and stuff and go through the training and and the class was canceled oh no registered yeah the class was canceled I originally registered for South Dakota class and it was canceled but I'd already taken the time off of my my day job at the time and and I thought I'm gonna do this this is gonna happen regardless so I ended up going to Austin Texas spending way more than I would have needed to or I could have just given I could have just asked for the refund and that would have been at the end of it but I was kind of held back like this is the answer for me and um going to that training um it was unlike any other training I was told that has ever been and but I made it through I actually had this I I called it the purge before because that morning I woke up and we were supposed to go to the the first day of training and stuff I had it was coming both ends I was purging and I was sick as a dog and oh no I had read the book because I tried to do this on my own in that space of time between the classes canceled and I thought oh that's I can do this on my own you know and this is me trying to and I'm like yeah no you can't do this on your own and for for those of you who are listening and not watching the video there there is a griefer cover handbook on screen right now with lots and lots of notes and tabs coming out of almost every page of it and lots of highlights and lots of highlights as well yeah well that that's an interesting thing to to stop on for a second victory because it's it's funny we're actually working on some other projects with griefer cover and how to deliver you know griefer cover to different people wherever they're at and you know again I am so grateful for the griefer cover handbook it is such a great foundational piece for people at the same time it can be really really difficult to work through the book on your own trying to connect all the dots right like the book is written very clearly but again it's a book it's not the same as having like a griefer cover specialist in the room with you that can really help you with the nuances and depth of the work that you know we want you to do when you're doing the work so anyway I'm glad that's a great kind of illustration of kind of what it feels like often to just work out of the book and what's beautiful is like they're now more than ever there's more resources available to you there's more people available to you that that are really good at at helping with this work that have huge hearts are also willing to lead from the front meaning they're willing to do their own work right this isn't people running from their own work just so they can kind of be distracted with your work this is people who have worked through this firstly they're and and and want to help you as well so anyway that's my little mini plug for working with a specialist versus just working with the work but please continue Victoria yeah and to piggyback that like what I experienced is and what I've found to be what I believe to be true is that when we are left to our own devices and to do this work personally in the quiet of our own rooms and things like that we are going to stop ourselves from going to to those deeply wounded places because it doesn't feel good we're we're just when we are in a space of being held by another person another soul who has also shared from a vulnerable space that's what opens up another person to allow themselves to touch those really painful places and that's what happened for me like I touched places it would know that I hadn't touched in over 30 years I had so much anger and resentment that I was holding in my body that it it was like the the floodgates open and I was crying the nile like yeah it was like I didn't know the tears were ever going to stop but it was so many years of holding it in that it I was a very different person when I went home yeah yeah yep um and in terms of you know where you grew up and was that just like a cultural thing was it we're we're feeling it's just not okay kind of in in the culture that you grew up in well I'm German is my background with German area German country it's very stoic it's you know you think about the people that came and settled here I mean it was harsh winter I mean you had to be crazy to come here yeah go through really difficult times um to to make it and it it is that whole like we don't talk about our feelings we what happens in the family stays in the family and and and and truthfully there really wasn't room for my grief because my mother had so much of her own she was just so I I was actually the emotional caretaker of my mother and took over that role I guess yeah so there really wasn't room I kind of just set myself aside and my my emotions aside and yeah yeah and how how old were you when you kind of we're aware that that was the role that that was being asked of you oh you remember 10 wow yeah wow okay okay my mother had remarried too and it was it was you know it was good for like a year and then it was toxic and um you know it was like a therapist yeah yeah very early on okay gotcha so so back to your you're in Austin Texas you're doing this work I'm gonna I'm gonna put words in your mouth and and you can say that's not how it is but it's it sounds like for me you're in a safe place there's no judgment there's no comparisons right everyone's just allowing you to have feelings and you don't have to apologize for them and and so you know can you take us back to kind of that point where you're you're actually in the method and allowed to feel and and kind of take it from there oh so sandy derby um well she's not derby anymore but she was my partner actually she was there for an advanced training okay also she was a specialist at the time going for her um for the two day I believe certified yeah yeah yeah so she was my partner did you were victorious sorry it's a little sidebar were you the one with food poisoning at this time I didn't so I thought maybe it was food poisoning but I had the same meal as someone I met someone on I took a tour bus where I lost in the day the night before and I was with I met somebody else for that was there for a different conference yeah and we toured the you know and we had dinner together and we had the very same meal at the very same place and I texted her the next day she had not gotten sick okay well sandy always tells me about a story where someone was going to certification but like sick as a dog on the floor of the room that's you that's me wow okay because I've heard this story and like I'm trying to connect the dots sorry listeners I just sorry we got it we'll we'll get back contract here in a second but um that's wild okay so I've I didn't know as you victor I'd heard that story okay so and again the way she tells it is she just had a lot of um admiration for you that how tough you were because you you were like nope I the nothing is getting in the way me doing certified and I'm dealing with this horrible kind of physical ailment I'm dealing with but I I want to be here and I just it speaks so much to who you are obviously um yeah I was very determined to got you okay all right we're getting back on track but good but good on you first sticking with it um okay so you're in that room you're doing the work you you have safety to do that work which I think is such a huge piece of it right um and and take it wherever you want from there like I said I 30 years of emotional baggage that I was just dumping out for for Sandy to see for Sandy to hear for Sandy to witness to be a witness for me I had never had that wow wow I had never had that in that way and and so and and just for those that have not done the method and you know if you've listened to this show a couple of show episodes and you have not done the method just start please because obviously you're being called to this work right um but I think what Victoria's getting at is there's one one action in this work called the loss history graph and we kind of learn about what grief is not just death but 40 different life events that are grief so we we have more education on what losses and then we ask you basically to from your very first memory until present day kind of like tell us about the losses that that you've had and so you know 30 years of stuff that's probably where Victoria's kind of feeling overwhelmed with like looking at the totality of the grief that we haven't really been safe to do anything with no one showed shared us tools on how to deal with it and so that's probably you know where we're at at that stage of the process but I do want to say this that's that's not where we end up in grief recovery we all in grief recovery we we ultimately identify one relationship or one loss we want to work through in the program otherwise it would be to to overwhelming and it would be too much and and so we really do kind of one relationship at a time one loss at a time so I just wanted to jump jump in there but again please continue Victoria no and that's a great segue to the fact that it's because of grief recovery that I still have my mother in life okay tell it to if you don't mind please tell us more what what does that mean yeah she's still living so okay and she'll probably never listen to this episode just like she hadn't read my she started to read my book and she was really happy with it so and honestly like there was people in my life who were not happy I went to see my uncle there's people in my life my mother was very skeptical about even doing this work or going through the certification so I didn't have that support even going into this okay didn't stop me either so I just want to remind people of that like good for you you are feeling called to this it is your choice in yours alone no one is standing in your way but you love that yeah and so it was really working on that relationship with my mother really changed my relationship with my mother to this day really to this day I it brought so much compassion into my heart for her as well um it it transformed me therefore it transformed our relationship without her having to change because she's not going to change she is who she is she has her own her she has her grief she has her trauma right and she's unhealed from that she has not done this work but I can have compassion for her as a griever you know stepping outside of myself and looking at her and recognizing that there's just parts of her that will never feel whole yeah and that's not my responsibility anymore wow wow yeah I I I love that um you know and you bring up a good point and I want to say this um a lot of the time people who come to get certified or people who come to do the regular community work well you know however they come to the grief recovery method I know this sounds really weird but a lot of the time they are not supported by their friends or family around them um and there's I think a couple of reasons I'd love to get your take on this but again if if Victoria grows up in a culture and we're all trying to fit into our culture right and if that culture is we don't talk about feelings you just drive on this is a you know this is a harsh environment and we don't have time for any of that well you know all of a sudden let's say you're just born and your natural disposition or the way God designed you was you want to be a little bit more open with your feelings right and in that culture that's not okay well at some point along the line right it's our responsibility to figure out what we want to continue on from the culture we come from and what we want to discard or modify or not use right that is our responsibility no matter where you come from like at some point in your adult part of your existence right it's really up to us to figure out what we're going to take and embrace from our culture and what we're going to leave behind because it's it's it's just part of the deal and so what happens is when you decide to kind of go against the program that's really scary for other people in your life right and so sometimes you're not going to get and that can be kind of I mean that can be surprising to you when you gain the courage to say how I'm going to go look at this really scary stuff and people are like oh you shouldn't do that here let me show you how to keep bottling it up here's how I do it right because again feelings are not okay and in so much of so many cultures like again you know this Victoria as much as I do we work with men women we work from with people from all different religions we work from people from you know whose whose families of origin come from all different continents or around the globe and what we see is across the board you know culturally a lot of us are wanting to keep emotions in we're what we're not wanting to express them and again I don't know quite why that is but but again you're doing this work for you and you got to be guided by your intuition and if this feels like what you need you do not need permission from anyone else to do it a lot of the time it's just about fear of the unknown or fear of my own stuff therefore I don't want you looking at your stuff because now I got to look at my stuff right or and and all those factors come in a place so don't be thrown off if people that you thought would be supportive of you going to do this work or not well and you see things so much more clearly you see other people sitting in their pain like you you're it's like the veil gets lifted this is how I you know talk to my clients about this it's like all of a sudden the veil is lifted and you see yourself more clearly therefore you see other people more clearly it's it you can see people like just how people carry themselves you can see that there's something in their body they're just not leasing or letting go or and and it's not about letting go it's about that's a thing too like people say well it's in the past you gotta leave it in the past I don't want to drench up the past it's in the past that's you can't do any can't change it now right like we live we die that's the part of life and that's I don't know if that's spiritual bypassing I don't know if it's just avoidance I think we're you know really trained to avoid right and and hate confrontation and so when we start to recognize changes in other people in our lives it is alarming and and when you go through this work I know what I have found for myself personally but also the people people I've worked with and I recommend at the book boundaries because we recognize oh my gosh I never knew a boundary growing up there were no boundaries or there weren't clear boundaries and there's safety in boundaries and so I think a lot of people are just walking around feeling unsafe in their own bodies their nervous system is just it's constantly just revved up and and a part of this work is recognizing getting in the body feeling the emotions and getting in the body because I think we so easily disassociate from our bodies and then when we recognize these things and these physical manifestations and how we how bound how boundaries are not just to keep they're not to like keep people out but they're to create a sense of safety within ourselves yeah that's also alarming to the people around this like all of a sudden now all you're not only changing but now you're not tolerating certain things or you're asking you know I'm you know I'm not you can't talk to me that way anymore whatever it is yeah yeah boundaries just seems to be the natural next thing that people start to investigate within their lives and their relationships after doing this work I I have found yeah no that's a really good point and especially I find with when when we do our work on parents and when when we look at that right or sometimes with significant others like those things come up that and that's absolutely I agree with you the other thing you mentioned which is like a benefit of this work is is like I think you use the term kind of getting back in your body and and another way I would put that is there's this huge concept in our in our work that and people kind of don't understand when we first start teaching it why why the emphasis on this but it's about having present moment skills it's about being in the present moment right and being in the present moment gets you grounded in your body and it's been a huge gift for me to learn those skills better because I was I was a type of guy where I used alcohol as well to kind of hide from my feelings and and the the world and then I got sober and so I didn't have that any longer and so I replaced that with kind of daydreaming and fantasy and either being in the past and just ruminating on the past or jumping to the future and creating the you know million scenarios that probably none of them will come true but I didn't really have a skill set of staying in in the moment very well and what grief recovery did was allowed me to the more work I did the more I would I could stay in the moment and that gave me better access to my intuition right in my it's really hard to have an into what intuition when you're you know 10 years ago right and you're living in 10 years ago so those those are the gifts of it but I loved what you said about just being in your body and that would be the other thing that I would say is being in your body is about being in the present moment and as unresolved grievers it's very hard to be there right I think we all know people and maybe this is us you know who who spent a lot of time in the past go to the future go to the past but rarely stay like actually check in with the moment another thing I think is important to mention is that you know even going for me going through this process and when I first did grief recovery I was in a very loving relationship I still am I'm still married 20 what 23 years I don't know whatever it is congratulations that's all that's amazing and it's like well why wouldn't you just talk to your husband okay first of all he's not grief certified so and he's not grief informed right in the way that a grief specialist is and so yes he's a safe space for me but there's a certain level of autonomy that a griever feels I feel when they're in a space of someone else sharing and then you're sharing right and because his path is his path and his level of openness has not been expressed through this work right and sometimes the people closest to us who have the most skin in our game are not the people to talk to about our deepest bones or to do this work with right right right right then it also I'm not saying to just pick a random grief recovery specialist definitely choose someone who you resonate with but I think that's it it it almost seems like well why would I just choose some stranger or whatever but it's like they don't have skin in your game and that's the whole point of it yeah that's that's a great point um going but going back to another thing in the book it's that we talk about is is the myths about grief like and these are things that we are taught very early on about how to deal with grief and unfortunately they're all not not good at dealing with grief but they're very common the first one that we cover is don't feel bad right we want to tell loving you know our children our friends our family our parents like don't feel bad it could have been worse or don't feel bad you know God never gives you something you can't handle or or let's be grateful for the time you had but but what however the message and comes out that the underlying theme is don't feel bad like we're all trying to not feel bad here right the problem is is obviously we've we're already feeling bad so when people say that they're disregarding their minimizing and it does not feel good to us well it's really hard for a husband or a wife or you know or a parent who wants nothing but you to feel good it's really hard for them to see that pain to see you working through stuff without some inclination or or trying to make you feel better right it's just because that's how we're wired and so like Victoria said I'm not going to do grief recovery work with my wife right it's just not an appropriate thing I would be I would be hiding stuff from her maybe I don't want to her to see me at that you know at that level of and and again that doesn't mean she hasn't seen me with emotion it just means that she's not a safe person for me to go through the the entire method with right and so I couldn't agree with you more now I do think all you husbands out there listening which you know we probably don't have that many honestly but you need to be listening to this because you need to be you need to know how to be a heart with ears for your spouse you need to know how to be a heart with ears to your kids right a dear friend of mine right now he works like four offices over in this co-working space of mine like I've been working with him on how to just be a heart with ears for his family he didn't go through the grief recovery method luckily he's just read the book so he at least he's that read in but he keeps he keeps coming back to me about like coal you know this didn't work out for my son and I just heard him and I didn't try and fix him and I'm like awesome how that go and it's like he he actually started playing five minutes later you know where before he would be crying for 35 minutes because I didn't hear him you know so you know again men out there you need to learn these tools okay I and that doesn't mean that you're going to go into the feudal position every every Tuesday and cry for a half hour like I'm not asking that of you nor is that me but but the shout out to the men out there you need you need to know these tools as well but I agree with you Victoria like we don't recommend you working with your spouse or with your children or you know those kind of things it's it's just it's it won't work on a lot of levels well one of the jokes in their house because obviously my family hears about grief recovery or grief all the time and my husband will say just kind of a little jab well which stage are they in now actually had Ken Ross on my podcast grieving voices and we talked about that very thing about the stages of grief yeah and and to your point like about it's like even like as a mother like when my kids are going through something it's like that propensity to want to fix right to jump in and you know we want to it's almost like we want to bubble wrap our children you know in this protective you know protect them from their own emotions almost you know it's like you know anger is a no and this is the thing with anger I think is so important with kids it's like anger is looked at as such a bad thing but anger not released is like poison yes yes yes the body and so children need to learn and that anger is not a bad emotion it is just an emotion and they are not their emotions they're not an angry person just because they feel angry right you'll angry yep I'm excited to announce our premium in-person certification training individuals who have a desire to help other people with grief and loss join us for a four day event that you will remember forever this is based on the proven four day certification we've done before the curriculum is the same but now you're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from Sandy these are tangible tools that help people in any area of their life you're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from me we will have double the amount of trainers to answer questions you have want to help people I'm missing information this missingly I'm an advocate for the grieving process because I know that's like why would you not tell somebody to heal there's going to be some tears in there there's going to be some tissues but well I think what will surprise people that are considering this training is if you sat outside of the room when this training is happening you wouldn't believe how much laughter is happening in this training you wouldn't believe how much joy and hope you can see on people's faces as we're breaking and people are coming out of the room it's everything the thing she was saying made me feel seen and normal and validated and not insane I saw grief as this really bad dark thing instead of seeing it as the actual healing process as someone who's been in this field for 15 years now I would have loved to have been trained under these circumstances it's just such a premier training you're going to probably walk away with some like lifelong friends we did not want to say goodbye to each other at that end of that four days be able to help walk them through that and give them that same light bulb that came on in my head it was it's transformative it was such a rich time of learning and engaging listening to people's stories being present being focused with who you're talking to is such a big part of the grief recovery work I had done a lot of things I'd done coaching I'd been in therapy I'd done a lot of other modalities and they were helpful but when I did the grief recovery method and when I walked through the method and continued to use the tools life began to have color I went from being very emotionally disconnected to being very connected do not wait seats are filling up sign up you will not regret it I cannot wait to see you have a great day I love that that's a that's a good that's a good point right because some people I think would take this is if it's sadness let them show it but anger right let's we can't show that again it's a variation of don't feel bad but you're absolutely right I have seen that a lot I've and honestly I've seen that with moms more than dads if I'm really being honest I've seen moms not willing to let their little boys be angry you know and I think men kind of understand that like anger is is something that really really needs to be learned how to be harnessed and and you know and expressed in some ways and and I don't know now that we're talking about this I do I think that a lot of the time it's like yeah yeah I'm fine with these emotions but this emotion is not okay to express and you're right it's it's poison it is poison if we don't learn how and teach our kids how to express it well and we're almost shamed for it right I have a very very deep emotional relationship with anger for me personally and so it's been a really steep learning curve and in recognizing when I'm feeling angry and and not shaming myself for feeling that way yeah yeah it's it's it's it's it's I don't know what it is but like if my one of my kids says like the word hate like I hate that right it actually is just you know she's like we don't use that word in this house right and I'm like well maybe and so it's it's a it's a it's a thing we kind of you know I don't want to say argue about but it's it's a difference of opinion on that right and it's like and and I love that you brought that up we haven't covered that in this podcast yet but anger specifically because it is a huge piece of this world that we help people with you know and and let me just point out this this part of it um obviously grief is this like massively emotional experience we know that but the other thing that grief is is it's it's a it's a process on where our survival computer or brain you know when we lose someone close to us like let's say when I when I when my dad is dying or when my dad died you know my survival computer in my mind is running the numbers on what is my survivability based on losing the patriarch of the house right now that's if I was 12 years old that's a different survival algorithm than when I'm you know I lose them at at 40 or whatever but the point is is whoever we lose through a death or at divorce or things change and they leave our life our actual survival computer is running the numbers on what's our survivability without this person in our life okay and that brings up food shelter all that brain stuff kind of hierarchy I think Maslow hierarchy of stuff it triggers all of that in us and that that can produce fear it can produce you know us wanting to run and it can produce anger as well right and so that's another reason why you know Victoria or I when we work with grieving people like a anger can be a part of this thing and we would not be doing a service to any of our clients if we were like oh sorry timeout sorry you can't you can't really touch on anger right now you can go anywhere else you want but anger we're not we're not comfortable with right that would not be helping them with their unresolved emotional pain you know if anger happens to be one of it so to me that's no different than when we're when we're helping our children right it's the same thing right if that feeling is in them it's valid and we got to figure out how to process that we actually oddly enough right now are we're doing a free week trial of Jiu Jitsu for our for our three boys and I and I'm I'm wanting to be supportive so like Ashley brings them to this but I showed up every day and watch them and I'm encouraging them and you know because I understand that grief recovery isn't the only game in town right we all have other tools in our life that serve us well and that's great um and again just for them processing frustration and anger in in a very physical way with with the grappling and stuff in a controlled way though I was like I don't care I told Ashley I'm like I don't care what this cost you you sign them up right now we're ordering keys tomorrow for them right because I could just see that expression happening in a very appropriate way right but it make no mistake for my little 11 year old who has a big brother who's very big brother-ish right for the little six year old who has two big brothers like this was such a good outlet for them to to again process things you know get things out anger being one of them frustration or whatever being one of them too right um so anyway I love that we kind of went here so I appreciate that Victoria well one of the things for my parenting that grief recovery helped change is that it helped me to become more curious to separate again myself and my knee jerk to fix and just get more curious like well what is it that you're angry about telling me more about tell me it's not we don't we don't say hate in this house but we'll tell me why that what tell me more about that like why do you why do you chew why do you choose that word you know it's just I think it's just take a beat and a pause and just get curious like like children are it's like like the the child you know in the situation and just be like oh wonder why they said that you know the kids all the time it's like why did they say that why do they do that I was a why kid so yeah that's just me but yeah human behavior I it's fascinating to me and um and you know you kind of forget that when you're all just like in your head wrapped up in grief and all of that but it's like once you do this work it it's like the clouds part right and you see things clearly again yep you're able to step back and and curiosity comes back into the picture again I think in in your relationships and yeah yeah no that that's that's a great point um what I what I found is again people who aren't willing at this point to go through the whole grief recovery method but but you know I'm wanting to help them where I can like this gentleman that I told you about just down the hall for me it's like teaching him how to just be a heart with ears just explaining that concept then allowed him like you said so instead of the him planning his rebuttal to his child about how to not feel bad or here we're going to problem solve this right away it kind of forced him when he's hearing this story to to to to ask like what what could that feeling be for my son what could that you know what what could my daughter you know be feeling after that event right and and just that little that little thing is going to be such a gift to that that entire family right just that pause of before we start problem solving which again maybe a part of the conversation right so don't don't misunderstand what I'm saying if my son had a really frustrating day um it's not like we're not gonna I'm not gonna help him problem solve at some point in the conversation if that's a piece of it right it's not like we're just hearing the pain and then saying well good luck with that son right there's there's a lot more that we're doing as parents teaching them how to navigate life and you know think positive and all of that but the problem is is when that is inserted first and the end all be all that's where we run into problems right and that's all we're asking the world to do is let's just be okay with the sad part when they're in the sad part right versus trying to shove them to the next phase right um hopefully that makes sense um when I think the deeper layer of that is when we're put up when we're experiencing something with our kids especially it's like what is this why am I having this response like what is this triggering in me that I feel I need to fix this particular thing or that like what is it about this that is you know bringing up this reaction within myself yeah and then and then recognizing that and then taking yourself out of the picture and putting yourself in the physical shoes of your child yeah I love that that is a deeper layer um and and definitely one to be looked at yeah I I love that um and that's you know and that's that's one of the things that again my friend down the down the the road the block like you know these tools are a gift to him you know that he's applying them but make make no mistake right my my hope my prayer for him is he goes through the whole grief recovery method right he goes he does his own work so intellectually we can understand some of these concepts and apply them very very beautifully with our kids but if I still have a backpack full of unresolved grief I'm not going all the way you know where I could as a dad leading by example or or a mom or you know whatever so so that that is true it's like the reading the book is different than doing the actions of the book right understanding some of these concepts from a podcast is different than you working with Victoria for seven weeks and doing the actual work so this is another gentle kind of nudge a gentle reminder that if you are a listener of this podcast and you have not done the method like please please please get into action sooner than later and I actually work with grivers for 12 weeks okay there you go so you get to hang with Victoria even longer bonus bonus you know and and and I was actually talking to a gentleman this morning I had a meeting with him on a whole different topic but I told him about kind of our goal like and our goal is not about client retention right our goal is not about working with you for five years and and making this stuff unsolvable right we want to teach you these tools we want to help you through these tools seven weeks 12 weeks I relatively short amount of time for the impact that this can have on your life and then if you want to come back and work with us on another relationship or something big happens and you want to come back and work for another four weeks with us great like we we're always here for you but the point is you know we're not trying like we don't want you to think that you need us long term or you need to lean on us or we're we're going to be kind of your crutch we can be your support system in ways but we want you out there live in your life and not having this be your your your whole identity right and and so anyway that's just another thing I wanted to touch on Victoria something you said kind of in our pre-interview that was I want to make sure we get across in this in this episode can you tell us a little bit about your son and kind of the accident he had and how you guys work through that as a family if you're willing yeah so his junior year he had been playing football it was November just wrapped up I think they had won the state championship that year and he had had gone to a party for his buddies birthday and you know small rural town kids are going to drink it's going to happen we don't condone it but we knew he probably and the thing is it's like well you're staying there we knew he was staying there wasn't going to be driving anywhere you know just be responsible it's all we that's all we ask it be responsible you know you're going to do it anyway right it's yep we can we can I'm not one of those parents that's like I'm not naive right I mean I was set team ones too yep totally and so you went to this party and his buddy had just gotten this bench pressing workout bench stuff and he had had a couple he said and you know knocked out 185 bench pressing few more drinks later much later he thought I'm gonna do it again but this time let's see how much more I can do and you know of course his spotter was probably unnebriated as well yep yep and the bench press weight all of it came down on his abdomen oh and his spine severed his pancreas and short of it is as six weeks he was in and out of the hospital three hours away and had an infection I had gotten COVID during that time it was a horrible horrible two months oh sounds like but while he was in the hospital you because he was 17 he was on the pediatric floor of this hospital and he did not have surgery we had an oncologist pediatric or a pancreatic oncologist actually that took his case and he just was refusing to listen to everybody else and I'm thankful for that that he listened to his own intuition did not do surgery so he did keep what was left of his pancreas so he has like 30% of his pancreas left okay just enough to not be a diabetic yeah okay um but he's laying in the hospital and he had plans of joining the Marines after he graduated my my husband and our both veterans long line of veterans in my family and um both sides actually and he was like what am I gonna do now like he was just contemplating his whole life he's 17 years old like what am I gonna do with my life now yeah and um I just asked him you know have you ever thought about giving a nurse he'd atrick he was really connecting with one of his the guys the nurse yeah and um I planted the seed not knowing what was gonna come out of that but he will graduate this next spring with a bachelor's in nursing and who interviews next week for a pediatric spot wow wow that's that's incredible and I'm I'm glad that that you know that path like um that path he saw that that those the path he wanted going um you know as as somebody that ended their career with a very dumb injury because of being inebriated you know I would offer a hug if I if I saw him tomorrow um because that is that's always you know that's a very hard thing um now would you mind telling us a little bit about you know the things you did to help him navigate that emotionally um you know the you know if you can think of any conversations you had or just things you are aware of as someone with these tools understanding that we we can't just immediately focus on you know oh it could have been worse or you know like all the things that we want to say because we want to shield them from this really painful accident in their life like well what were the things that you were focused on helping him navigate this emotionally well granted he still had another year of high school so he was you know he was that was his and you know you know toward the middle of his junior year so he still had another year of high school yeah you know it was I planted the seed but that that's you know he didn't have that direction for over another year and it really took that next year of me applying these tools because I could have as much as I because our relationship wasn't the best I was that we were actually struggling with communication before this happened and I was feeling um you know mothers can feel hurt when their children don't when you don't feel connected to your child and that's where we were at and this happened yeah and so after this happened it's like first of all he recognized the importance of family um his whole perspective changed of life wow of course like yep I'd have died um so you know it just it I think it really it opened up our whole family and it really brought us closer but it was not me pushing him to talk and open up yeah and allowing him the space and time that he needed to come to his own conclusion to come to his own place of peace about this massive change that that took place in his life yeah in the terms with that um we are so close now it you know these talk about sliding door moments like it was a sliding door moment and um you just never know that you know it feels horrible at the time when things happen even my dad dying right it felt like the most horrible thing for 30 years of my life but it's not that I wouldn't change it right like I would love to have my dad and I would have loved for my son to not experience this but at the same time there have been so many um you know people say you have to find the gift or find the people don't want to hear that when you're in the middle of the no they don't know they do not yep and suffering right but they're truly are they're truly is another side and I didn't think that that was possible until I went through this myself and and I knew my son would get there but in his own time yeah and these tools that I learned um have really helped him I think understand um for giving himself for maybe the relationship that we were having at you know when this happened um there was a lot of forgiveness that took place as a result um apologies things that were said that um it yeah it and it's too bad that this that that had to happen um for that to happen um but maybe that's the message here is that we can do our own work and we can facilitate our own changes and transformations in our lives and honor the people in our lives to to walk their own path and um and honor that and them to and recognize that we cannot save anybody else like wow yeah I well how you know how beautifully said I you know one thing that comes to mind when you're talking is these are very very powerful tools obviously that's why we get on here weekly and talk about them and I want to have every everybody that I really respect in a mire that does this work I want them to have a voice on this platform and these tools are incredible um and that being said there are times when you know as a parent in my household uh or me growing up in my household which was the grief recovery household I mean my dad you know for those that don't know my dad wrote that book he started this work he he created this method so I was familiar with these tools I had heard about the myths about grief I had seen him help people and work with people at the same time the the pull of modern society was too much for me at that time when I was 16 right I was an athlete I was tough I couldn't show a motion you know I'm going action movies and that's who I want to emulate you know and so uh you know what I love Victoria is that it sounds like from my side for you as a mother you you had these tools but you you knew not to over push these tools to a 17 year old or 16 year old boy that that you know you you very well could have driven him away if you tried to smother him with all this stuff you know right and I'm I'm so grateful that you had that wisdom and honestly when I was crashing and burning in different ways in my teen years my dad did the same thing you know he was an example he showed me how to do this stuff but he did not smother me with a bunch of stuff that maybe I wasn't willing to look at right in that moment but I always felt like no matter what I was doing he would listen to me he would be a heart with the ears I didn't feel judged by him you know I didn't feel minimized by him so I knew when I was ready and I had worked stuff out he was always someone I was willing to talk to and at that time you know I think moms and and sons at that time that's a tough age I was really budding heads with my mom during high school years right and I think that's you know happens with a lot of families and I'm so glad that like you you you you knew with these tools you know another stuff that you've picked up along the way I'm sure but you knew how to navigate it to where you know you guys could come together and be closer than you ever have before um you know and and uh anyway I I the yeah your your family seems like a really special one and and again I'm sorry that that happened to your son but I am glad that you guys are where you're at like in spite of that that accident you know um and thank you for bringing up your dad because um I mean thank thank thank goodness for John um because I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation with you so I give thanks to him yeah but the aspect of his story that really touched me too was that he was a veteran a Vietnam veteran and my dad was as well yeah wow so that really touched me um yeah I I this is I wish this was something that was on every military installation across the country um I had been at a before COVID um I had been at a um mental health summit for veterans and just you know went there as a as a person in the audience um to I had a booth for recovery for recovery there and I was in room a room of social workers and psychologists and therapists and what shocked me was that day they were talking about suicide prevention and the one word that was never uttered was the word grief yep not once yep it's amazing isn't it it blew my mind and yep I went and talked to I had so many doors slammed in my face when I was trying to like get this in there but even as a veteran myself like no it's like Fort Knox red tape yep yep it's it's really sad I mean we we definitely our passion um is to help veterans and families of veterans and and the burden that they bear like in our in our world is massive and we're actually talking to several different groups in the military right now and and they keep they keep kind of flirting with the idea that grief is a piece of it right and I just I wish at some point they would just fully embrace this because as you probably know we've very successfully worked with veterans and families of veterans um as a matter of fact in in in Miami I have a couple of um uh veterans in in in my upcoming training and you know it's such a good tool for for people in that world um and it is so sad yet I'm you know I'm not shocked or surprised at all like you said when when we come around and we talk about the suicide rate you know exceeding the civilians who a side rate and you know all these things that people are dealing with on these bases and grief isn't even mentioned once it's it's I know it sounds crazy but again this is a topic guys that is terrifying to people to go full circle that's why when Victoria tell some tell someone they're going to a grief training they're like why would you do that we're working so hard to keep our stuff bottled up that when you hear someone else that's like willing to unbottle it for a bit it's it's like a red alert code red shut them down like tell them to go do something else and you know unfortunately that's the military unfortunately that's the media unfortunately that's everyone you know at our workplace I mean when I when I left Fox and told all my co-workers that I was coming to help people with grief they thought I grew an arm out of my head you know they looked at me like I was insane you know like you're moving from show business to helping people with grief are you insane you know and it was like yeah you guys don't get it like I'm not going to talk about sadness over and over and over I'm going to help people get to the completion letter and then watch the fireworks as they get to deal with stuff that they've been holding for 30 years and you don't understand what a gift that is and how real that work is versus what I'm doing over here with my TPS reports like I'm sorry you don't get that but like you haven't been read into what what's going on over here you know that's how I felt but I didn't say any that but you know it's it's just incredible um the awareness you get once you see that grief is the real piece of the puzzle that society doesn't get yet you know on one day I hope they will right it's like right now the only people that are grieving are people who you know someone died in their life six months ago that's the only people that people you know that you as you as you qualify as a griever and it's like you and I are walking around and everybody you know in this coffee shop down below me and everyone you know on the highway that you're going to pass every one of them has unresolved grief from their past right that is affecting their daily lives and it's astounding that people don't see it and it's also astounding all the other words that people are comfortable using right whether it's anxiety or trauma or stress or you know they're they're comfortable with so many words but they're not comfortable with the word grief they're terrified of the word grief right and that's why we keep saying that word right um well and I think people it's so difficult to see your own potential when you're in the thick of it or even like for 30 years I didn't really recognize my own potential but my life is so I'm so much unfolded has so much as unfolded in my life since I've done grief recovery like it it took me down paths I never even anticipated like I'm an energy healer worker now too I'm healing practitioner like I never it's like it's like peeling an onion and clients that I've worked with actually just caught up with the gal I worked with two years ago I believe it was and even back then she was working on a certification and getting a fellowship she got it I mean I just saw a LinkedIn post from her like this last time I'm like oh my god you did it you did it like you did it like this was your goal when I was working with you and it she did it she moved like she was living with her mom at the time and she moved and got her own place like in a difference town like yeah yeah I have seen people's lives just beautifully open up and and bloom and and flourish yeah because they got this the muck out of the way you know it's what I like to call it's the month yeah yeah emotional luck yeah no I love it and that's the thing is if if you're listening to Spodcast you qualify for this work you should be doing this work don't worry we will help you find stuff if you're not sure what to work on um but but this does for some people they just need to get back to zero you know grief has hit them so hard and the loss was so unimaginable that they just want to get back to zero and and if that's you we're going to give you hug and we will help you go there some of us are you know what we want to conquer the world or we want to pursue that dream we've always been wanting but we were just too scared to get there for some reason it's always alluded us right if that's you grief recovery can help you right it's like and and any any where in between right um no two people are the same that get to us because every relationship on this planet is unique and therefore you're unique and everybody you're going to work with is unique and and we have room for that um but just know that so many of the things that seemingly feel like obstacles that that you know or accomplishments you've wanted to make that that just keep feeling out of reach of you like give grief recovery a shot because that person you mentioned like that's been true for me it sounds like that's been true for you grief is a piece of it guys whether we we want to admit it or not and the timeline is real irrelevant we got to stop thinking about grief in what you know well it's it's past six months after the loss so I'm not agree for anymore it's like no no no no no no that it is in your heart it is weighing you down it is preventing you from soaring to the heights you want us or to like I don't care if it was 30 years ago or five months ago right it is there if we don't have tools to deal with it so anyway I can't believe it but we're at the hour long mark um and so Victoria where can people find you how can they get in touch with you how can they get your book you know let us know all that good stuff thank you everything's on my website the unleashedheart.com I have all my social media is there the link to my book linked to my podcast and currently on a sabbatical right now kind of feeling out like how I want you know I want to come back how do I want to come back yeah yeah I love to give griebers you know it's called grieving voices so it's giving griebers a voice right I love that kind of what you do here except you know more so with the specialist which I love actually this is really great that I had this opportunity to share about grief recovery and I talk about grief recovery all the time yeah on my podcast too but yeah everything's on my website all the links are there okay great and we'll put that in the show notes so we're whatever platform you're listening to this on we will link to Victoria's stuff trust me trust me you are in very good hands if you decide to work with Victoria that's something that you want to do you know I know I've nudged you several times in in this I just feel compelled to do that today you know if you're a listener to this podcast and this stuff speaks to you don't put it off I know it's scary but like just get into the work sign up show up for the first class get into the work now because what what is heartbreaking for me is the amount of people that show up and they they told me that they've been trying to get here for five years they've been aware of this work for eight years they got the book but put it down three years ago right and it's like don't don't procrastinate I know this stuff is scary stuff but just look how many guests have we had where where every one of us have fought through that fear and and got to the other side of it through just doing it and the beauty of this work is it's never alone it's with another loving person that has your best interest at heart and is there solely to help you get across the finish line in this work right whether that's another specialist whether that's a partner in a group environment like the way we set this up is you will feel you know I don't think it's I don't think it's an exaggeration to say there's a good likelihood you'll feel more supported emotionally than you ever have before in your entire life because that's what we see time and time again so so get started you know why not so Victoria again thank you so much for your time I will definitely be inviting you back for episode two at some point if you are willing I know we got you know plenty more to talk about and and you have a great you know rest of your day and any final thoughts on on your side Victoria you had just said you know what do you have to lose and I'm like what have you lost already you know it's like what it what has it been costing you that's what I would say yeah there's a cost and not doing this work too yeah well said from this opportunity I would love to come back another time awesome we'd love it and for our listeners again thank you so much spread the message spread the message we we have really exciting kind of numbers we're growing every month people are finding it so thank you thank you thank you for that all all of the listeners um and again right if you're if you're passionate about this work uh send it to your spouse right they don't need to get certified maybe they they won't ever actually do the work but maybe they'll they'll get get some helpful information that they didn't have before so send this to your friends your family you know we have to start being courageous about just getting this content out there um because as as we've talked about today the world desperately needs it and they don't even know they don't even know that this is a huge piece of the puzzle of why our society has the divorce rates it does the suicide rates it does the drug addiction that it does you know so much of it is unresolved grief yet we won't even say that at a conference when we're trying to address these issues that's how insane it is so we have to lead the charge at getting this conversation going um or or or I don't know how I don't know how we solve some of these problems you know so anyway you guys have a great rest of your day or evening and until next time this the feel free again podcast thanks for listening