How to Help Student Athletes Handle Pressure & Emotions with Coach Caelyn Caulfield

And so just working super closely like I have them one on one and we'd end up in the middle of a activity or something and they would just start kind of pouring out their soul to me so after getting kind of close to them and gaining their trust. We would just be having conversations so we might you guys and figured out kind of what you were in and got super interested in that not only. Kind of for myself but also to kind of give me more tools to be able to work with these kids when certain conversations would come up. So that's that's kind of how I jumped into it and a lot of the reason why like even just working with kids is I want to be an adult that I didn't have when I was growing up so that really was the push to dive into the grief recovery method.

Yeah well I know we're really excited that you that you did get certified and you know I do meet people are in my daily lives and I that and I know man that that would be a great specialist that person would would be amazing at this work that this person could utilize it you know with people and you are obviously always one of those people and I remember the conversation pretty well about you know you being at that school and us just talking about yeah like obviously unresolved grief. Is a is a part of everyone's story at that school right the student the faculty the parents right that's like that and so you know again and now after you got certified you kind of shifted gears right and you and you moved over to this high school and then became the coach and then got promoted to the head coach and can you walk us through a little bit about.

How have you applied these tools these skills with with the young ladies on your team you know or even at high school in the different capacities how are you using these skills and how have they been helpful for you. Yeah so I mean we always say like whatever sport you're in be a basketball baseball right there's always so much more than the game right like we teach the skills and all those things but there's always like an under the table. Like an underlying emotion and like all the skills soft skills that we learn just to be good humans right in the in the world so with my with my team kind of knowing all of this like we I would set aside time for it so like every Monday we have a team meeting and I give them a space where you know this is our this is this is a vault right I shut the door and I'm like this is our time we can have conversations right about we might have like a focus of the week like what are what we want to focus on this week and doesn't have to do with basketball or it can and we always tie it back in with like the theme so this last year our theme was trust so everything that goes under trust and how we can always tie it back into that and I just I when I was going through the program the one thing that really stuck out to me was I think we do a really good job of intellectualizing like why we act the way we do or why we react to certain things we do are like oh it's because this is how my dad taught me how this or you know I didn't whatever it was that we didn't really get but never really dealing with like the emotional current that's under it so like we can understand why this is happening and I can be like okay this is why I act this way or this is why I have this relationship but never really dealing with okay but how did that make you feel or all of that stuff underneath it so I don't know man these kids I feel like need a space right and being a head coach of girls right there's a lot of emotions no matter what we're dealing with so just being able to let them understand that you know it's okay for us to take a time out and pause and like kind of touch on it sounds kind of touchy feeling but like how are we feeling right now like because how how we feel and how we play right like they're very intertwined and if we don't deal with certain things like it's never it's not going to go away so just giving them the tools to kind of like work through those situations and you know practicing it in a safe space with me right or like if they have problems with teammates or whatnot like just having that time to practice before they have to do it all by themselves when they don't have that safety net of coach or team or teacher what have you so yeah no I love that I again right it's like it's it's why I wanted to have you on on the show because how many and I'll just say thousands right there are thousands of coaches out there at all different levels and they think most of them I would say they think emotions are for the parents to deal with or to kind of just shelve and pretend it doesn't exist and they just quit that you know quit those emotions and just play how I know you can play and if that is like a thing right as if that's possible for us a 10 year old travel baseball player boy or you know 16 year old girl like hey just shelve all that compartmentalize it and just you know keep going and so I love that that again you have this skill set and I wanted I wanted you to you know again just talk about all these things like how cool is it that that you have these meetings where people can just be honest about what they're going through right and you know I get it probably the the safest the safest most confidential place on earth is probably not a bunch of high school girls right it's not like we can fully probably tell the truth about how we feel all the time like well like we work on in the certification yeah but a little is more than nothing and I'm sure I'm sure you've actually had a lot of really powerful stuff go on in there too right yeah actually it's funny too because like in the beginning so I was like asking a question and of course like one or two girls are always the ones who like raise their hand and like give their thoughts and all that and like okay it's anybody else anything like that cricket right and so I'm like okay I have to think how how can I get these girls to engage like no matter what the question is or what what we're talking about like I want everybody engaged because I wanted them again our theme was trust I wanted them to trust each other because if they trust each other off the court then on the court it's going to be way easier so yeah I would give them like a few days notice and be like hey this is the question I'm going to ask I want everybody to answer and we'll just start a conversation off of that so I started with pretty easy questions like pretty benign nothing too deep just to kind of get everybody talking and yeah by the time like the end of the season we I mean I'm laughing but we had girls who started tearing up and like really telling us about like yeah I I feel like I have to always keep it together and I never get to be upset or be mad because you know been told from beginning like just got to keep pushing through and where you know as an athlete yes we there are moments where we do have to push through but just not ever revisiting that situation is kind of where I think the hang up is especially for these young women and just being told like if you cry no one's going to want to talk to you well okay cool and I'm just going to push everything down and I deal with it ever right so it's pretty cool like what I wanted to happen started to happen and we were having great conversations and these girls started opening up of course we always had the you know we had a couple of freshmen on the team so they're pretty we're worried we were pretty quiet the whole time but yeah we it's funny you said 10 year old boys for our baseball team like we just had this conversation mean I mean Jared because Brock had a real tough time emotionally this weekend and his at bats and we what may have looked like a super selfish him like crying because you just struck out he was like I left I left people on both sides I left people on base.

I left my team stranded. I didn't do what I thought I was supposed to do for my team. And I'm like, holy macro. Like, that's a lot.

And just trying to help Jared. Like, OK, this is what's going on. Like, yes, there's a time and a place where, you know, maybe he shouldn't be crying in the dugout. But we need to model and teach him and give him tools.

So he can have like emotions are going to happen, right? But how it comes out of us is something that, yeah, OK, we need to start practicing. What can I do to make the situation not as awful? Like, his goal this week is high-fiving people.

So if he starts to get in his head about how awful he's doing, I'm like, put it on someone else. Like, give somebody high-five. Make somebody else feel good. Because then that'll kind of like make you feel good and stop thinking about what you just messed up on or something.

So yeah, yeah. I feel like it's a constant conversation. Yeah, yeah. No, and you know, it's interesting, because I was talking to Jared's, Kaelin's husband, for all you that probably have put that together.

But anyway, I was talking to Jared the other day. And he was telling me a little bit about how your son struggled a little bit on that game. And, you know, and I just reminded him, he's a very talented, physically big, strong kid for his age, right? And so he's played up a year or two his whole career.

And, you know, the problem with that is he can perform physically, but he is not an 11-year-old or 12-year-old. He's a 10-year-old, but he's playing with 11-year-olds or 12-year-olds. And the coaches often forget that there's an age discrepancy, right? So when I help coach a 12-year team, and I just, you know, I just assume everyone's 12.

I forget, even though I know, like we have an 11-year-old on our team, right? And the other day, as a punishment, we made him run sprints, right? And this 11-year-old was having a very tough time emotionally with the work that was needing to happen right there. And, you know, and I just remember, oh, he's 11, right?

And it's like he's in a different spot. And I just hope that coaches and parents, like give their son and daughters that grace and that understanding that it's like, hey, your child may be physically a little bit more advanced, and that's awesome, but don't expect them to skip ahead a year or two emotionally because that's just not fair, right? And you can do some really rough stuff to your kids if we do that. And as a side note, this last weekend, my younger son, who's 10, he played his old team, and he started as pitcher, and he got sheld.

He got hit really like he didn't go our way. We ended up losing, you know, 18 to 2. Oh, boy. And it was a very, very emotional time for my son who had all these hopes, dreams and expectations of how that game would go.

And they clearly did not go that way. It was like a bad dream ending after ending. Nothing won, you know, his way. And anyway, what I love, though, and this is signified 10-10-year-old kids, as they shook hands at the end, the kid, one of the kids that hit a home run, that was his old teammate, hugged him.

And then another kid hugged him, right? And it was like, oh, it was so cool. And it's like, I don't want us to beat that out of our young people, right? It's like the love and the openness that they had to share.

And hey, this was a rough day for you. And yeah, I did good. Maybe you didn't have your best day, but let me give you a hug. It was like, I'm getting almost like I'm getting teary-eyed right now because it's like, we put so much pressure on our kids.

I'm guilty of this. I know, you know how that goes as well. We put so much pressure on our kids, and we expect them to operate sometimes as machines. And it's like, it's just not a good plan for anybody involved, right?

And it's easy to get into that. But if you don't mind, let's go back to what you're doing with your team. Because I think it is so cool. One of the things that we talk about, and you probably saw this in your training, but you can take 12 to 15 to 20 complete strangers.

And within a day or two, they are rooting for each other. They are really learning how to love each other. They're like understanding that we all grieve at 100% of what our background and what our past was. And it's not a ranking.

And we don't have to minimize you because this one's more dramatic over here. It's just like once we just give permission for everyone to have feelings and honor them, you can bond and have such trust. So I want to talk more about that because I think more coaches would actually get a lot more, whatever they're looking for, whether it's the wind column or it's just synergy or just less drama and toxicity in locker rooms, which is very prevalent all over the place. I've been a part of that a lot in my career.

It's like if you could do more grief recovery skills like what you're doing, if more coaches could do that, you could bond teams so much quicker, you could get them playing better. So can you talk a little bit more again? Like what are the other questions you started introducing practically to kind of get the girls to start really, again, talking with each other, learning each other, right? Really trying to probably more having compassion for each other and empathy for each other.

Is I am assuming what happened over the course of the season? Yeah, I know I was actually going to look up the notes because I have all the questions, but you know, it went from like even just self-talk. Like what are some of the negative things you say to yourself? Okay, what are some of the positive things you say to yourself?

And it was super interesting too when we'd have those conversations about like how do you talk to yourself or what are you telling yourself in these moments? A lot of them were the same. And the negative was like, you're not good enough or like you're just never going to get it or what have you. So I thought in those moments too, like, oh, like I'm not alone in this, right?

So like even just in the grief recovery stuff, like feeling isolated and alone and like not, you know, not feeling like there's any hope, right? And so I thought that was really cool and like when girls would get emotional, like we'd all kind of take a second and because I, because I, I'm always the one who gets emotional because then like, if I start talking about stuff, then I start tearing up and I'm like, holy cow, I didn't even, I didn't know that that would take, take that out of me. But yeah, just getting them just to think more about their why too as well. Like why, why do we do this?

Like why do we put ourselves through all this and why is it important to be an athlete? Like what are the some of the things that you give up being an athlete? Because that's important too, like time with your family, time with friends. Like, I know you can empathize with this, like us being our own athletes.

Like we never had summers because we were playing baseball. We were playing basketball as I camps all the time. Like I really didn't have a lot of relationships outside of basketball. So and then telling them, so the fact that we spend quite a bit of time with each other and you spend so much time, you know, in basketball, like these relationships that you guys make are kind of a big deal.

Like we'll talk to, I still talk to my high school coach and some girls on the team. Like we we actually have Zoom meetings every now and then. We call it coaches corner. So we should start a podcast.

I'm like, well, yeah, but just getting them to understand that, you know, basketball is bigger than just the game. And yeah, I think I answered your question kind of. I feel like I keep going off on all these different tangents. No, no, this is great.

This is what I was hoping for because, you know, I don't think you can find a more emotion-filled room than youth athletics, whether it's the gymnasium or a soccer field or a baseball field. Like there are so many emotions happening across the nation. Well, I mean, really across the world on a, you know, weekend to weekend basis. And I feel like parents and coaches are honestly dropping the ball and missing the mark on a lot of opportunities to again, just kind of role model emotions.

Here's how we manage them. And also like what you're doing, here's how we can communicate with each other as a team. I'm going to keep coming back to this. I don't know why, but I just want to keep coming back to this.

How many high school varsity women's coaches are there? Do you think that are having a weekly check in like that and allowing their players to like talk about some of their fears or some of their emotions and allowing other players on the team to relate and to be like, oh, I'm not the only one feeling that way. That, that, what you're doing for that team, right? That is translating.

I know on the court as well, because I have been on teams where we all hated each other. I've been on teams where we all loved each other. And then I've been, you know, most of the time it's like, hey, we love some people on this team and you, and you don't, there's two or three people you don't. But again, for you to be actively trying to help build trust and relationships and have people be able to tell the truth about what they're going through, which like you said, most of the time it's most of those kids on that team are going through very similar things.

And when they hear that, I mean, I can't, I can't remember any time in any level of my sports where I talked about my emotional feelings with anyone on my team. Yeah. You know, and it's like for you. So I just want to honor how unique what you're doing is.

And for coaches out there who, you know, again, at different levels for different reasons, some coaches, their whole priority is what the win column looks like. And then for other coaches, you're coaching younger kids. Maybe it's more about like player development, which I think it should be for the record versus just wins at young levels. But I don't want to go on that tangent.

But again, staying on track, right? It's like what you're doing is just such a service to those, to those women. And also, you're also improving how they're going to gel as a team. Like there's just to, to me, you can't, you can't deny that, right?

As a coach, like I want coaches to be aware of, of this aspect, right? So, yeah. And I think that like, it's a, I mean, especially, well, I say this just because I'm in it, but like, there's a lot of mental, the mental stuff that goes behind any sport. And acknowledging that, like, it was a, like, I'm going to be honest, like, yeah, we checked in every Monday or whatever day we picked to have a team meeting and stuff.

Like, it was a lot. Like, I didn't, like, I knew going into it, like, okay, girls, like, I was on team. I was, I am a woman, right? Like, I get it.

There's emotions. But like, it was a lot of work. And like, getting them to, to feel okay with talking about it. Like, and I didn't want it to be where I was like forcing the issue or like forcing them to talk about stuff.

That's why I felt like the questions, like just getting some conversations going like that would be helpful. And then, like, hoping as we got further into it, like, they, they were kind of excited to have, like, team meetings every, every week. So it was, it was kind of cool to see how a blossom. But even at the end, like, I still feel like we had more to go.

So we'll pick up where we left off. When we start this season, but then again, it's like, we lost a couple of girls. So we kind of have a new team because we'll be gaining new girls. So it's kind of like, it's going to be a rehashing.

But I'm going to be better because we've already gone through it for a year. And hopefully the girls who went through it last year can be role models. So like, I don't have to do as much as the heavy lifting. I hope because I won't have to model the entirety of it, just kind of, you know, as the adult.

And then hopefully the older girls can kind of role model and model how they can be open and honest. So that was just one big thing too, like going through the program was just being okay with being vulnerable and honest and open with your feelings. Not so much where you're just like puking it all over the place, but like, you know, being being authentic and showing these girls like it's okay. Like you, you can be real and yeah, it's kind of scary sometimes because you never know you know what the group is going to do.

But to be honest, like, they're all probably feeling the same way or they felt something similar to that. So yeah. Well, and you know, a lot of the time, it's like people don't want to be vulnerable or open with their emotions if no one else is going to. Right.

So, you know, in a certification room, it's like, we can't really do what we do in there. And less 12 people are willing to tell the truth about themselves. Right. And so you can, you can move very quickly when the setting and the understanding is that.

Right. And I get, you can't move that quickly on a football team or a, you know, basketball team because number one, that's not the primary focus. And again, you have to really start some, some of the kids again, maybe in their house, they really cannot open up. Right.

Maybe survival makes them to, you know, they're just trying to survive their existence outside of that court. And it's like, I can't open up. And so, but what I love like what you're talking about is, is you ask the question and you have maybe a couple of, of, of players who are maybe naturally a little bit more open who are willing to go first. And that's going to kind of set the tone for some of these other players that are closed off.

And before, you know, it may take months, you know, our weeks before they start chiming in. But, you know, I know for me, after getting these tools just as a guy, a middle-aged guy, I started kind of telling friends of mine how I felt about them. Because I remember what it's like to lose friends to like, you know, I lost a good friend of mine to drunk driving. And I never told him one time how I felt about them because you don't do that when you're in your 20s.

And it crushed, it freaking broke my heart for years and years, right. And it's like, I don't want to let, I don't want to be left holding that bag of pain. And, and, you know, having a friend, lose a friend and, and not know that they ever truly knew how I felt about them. And, and, and by living my life that way, I facilitated conversations or opened the door for them to, you know, say stuff that they weren't ever taught how to like communicate, right.

So just starting that conversation, I think, is awesome. I'm really excited to see how it develops for your team. And then you, you mentioned another thing, which again, I think is another thing that people are not aware of in sports. Just losing a team or losing players, right.

That's change. And that is a grief event for those girls, right. And it's like, if we don't kind of honor that, let them process that, let them even talk about that. Then they are unfinished with the last team, right.

And that creates friction on different levels with what the new team is. Same with coaches, right. We lose a coach, we gain a coach. Everyone just expects us to be quiet and just keep going and keep rolling all in the same direction.

And that's not really like how it works, right. But we all think it works that way. And, you know, again, I keep trying to come back to the practical benefits of this stuff, right. It's like, I can see coaches listening to this rolling their eyes and being like, I don't have time for having an emotional powwow and blah, blah, blah.

But it's like, would you still think that if you saw a team that was, you know, again, all rolling in the same direction, truly picking each other up, truly caring about the team dynamic, right, versus just them as individuals. Because you know that is going to translate into into wins, right. And at bare minimum, just a better team, like with whatever you're working with, you know, 100%. Yeah.

Well, I mean, like I said, it is a lot of work, right. It is the extra work that you have to do. But I mean, even if you are worried about your wins, like you're just saying, like, it translates, like it might take a little bit. But I mean, that's the kind of team I want number one, want to be a part of.

And number two, like, it makes it easy to coach, right? Like you have girls who will run through walls for each other. Like that's exciting, right? Like a girl takes a charge and you have your whole team running over and picking her up, or like someone dives on a loose ball, like all those, you know, moments of the game where you're just like so excited for not only your success, but her success or his and then the team's collective.

So, I mean, that obviously that's my hope, right? Like I want this work to be able to make that, or for that to be something for our team or the school that's program, right? So, yeah, that's my hope. Yeah.

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Again, the last couple of years, I've really had to explore this topic because like you on the coach and I'm coaching a different age bracket and I'm coaching boys in travel baseball. And I didn't grow up that way. I grew up with like park, wreck ball and then little league. But the pressure that is on nowadays in this in travel ball and tournaments and five games in a weekend, it's it's pretty wild.

And you know what I'm focusing right now with a lot of the kids that I'm working with are. And by the way, if you if you're a parent listening to this, like I just want to call myself out. Like if the if the kids asked, they would say cold like coach, cold is a very tough coach. Like I don't play around.

I expect like a lot of hustle and discipline and I'm I'm happy sprinting the kids. And so I don't want you guys to like think of me as like, hey, let's talk about your feelings, Johnny. Like I'm not really that guy when it when it comes to coaching. Okay.

But I'll tell you what, there's a difference between, you know, a kid getting hit and kind of like getting hit in the back and like crying. And I mean, that's fine. I don't really care. But if a kid strikes out, right?

And they're really frustrated. I know that's an emotional experience for that kid. That's a loss. So, you know, we talk in grief recovery about hope streams and expectations for the future not being met.

Okay. And I'm not saying that this is going to be the longest line on this kid's lost history graph. Okay. But they have an expectation, especially at 10 and 11, they have an expectation that they will get a hit every single at bat.

They will make every play, right? They will strike out every batter as a pitcher. And they have an expectation that's unrealistic. But they don't know that in their mind.

It's that's their expectation. And when these things are not met, right? That is a little baby grief event for them, right? Now in the moment, it doesn't look like a baby grief event.

It may be the biggest tears you've ever seen. Right. But what I'm seeing this through the lens of these unresolved unfinished emotions that are happening based on expectations that they have. So what I've been trying to do, even at the 12 year old level, like I have kids right now on this team that they expect again, they're okay.

Well, I'm in the number four hitting spot. So I have to hit home runs and I can never get out, right? And they put that pressure on themselves because that's that expectation. So I try to, number one, I try when they come into the dugout, I'll try to kind of paraphrase briefly with them.

That must be really frustrating. Yeah. You know, just I, you know, I knew you, I knew you wanted to kind of smash that ball and that didn't have that. You know, I know you're frustrated.

Let's give ourselves 10, 15 seconds. It kind of, you know, process that. And again, this stuff doesn't like, they don't even really hear it, right? I'm looking like five games from now, but I'm just trying to plant the seed of like, like, yes, I hear that you're frustrated, right?

Because if we just go to like, which most, most coaches do, if you don't turn it off right now, you're going on the bench, right? It's just like turn it off right now. And it's like, oh, okay, well, you know, I think I can give them 10, 15 seconds. And then you got to go be a shortstop, or you got to go play right field or whatever you got to go pitch.

And it's like, so I try and help them at least know, like, yes, I hear you. Like I've been there. I know this is frustrating. But I also try at some point to like teach them about realistic expectations for what, what performance looks like at that level, whether it's basketball, you know, varsity girls, basketball, women's basketball, or boys, 12 year old baseball.

It's like here, like, let's, let's maybe adjust expectations a little bit, right? And again, it's, and it's not, you're, you're just trying to plant that seed. It's not a, it's not a quick thing. But I think that would be also a good thing for coaches to understand is like, these are emotional events for them because they, they maybe spent the whole night before dreaming about what they were going to do in that, at bat, right?

There, there's an investment there. There's emotional investment there. And it's like, if you don't hear them at all, here's my point. Okay, I'm kind of rambling.

I apologize. Here's my point. If you're a coach and your kid runs in and they struck out and you tell them, if you don't stop right now, you're, you're not playing the next inning. Okay?

They may shut it down right then. But I promise you, they're not finished with that moment. Yeah. Right?

So they just stuffed it. And then now when they go out to the right field, guess, guess who's not catching the pop fly or reading the ball off the bat on the next play? It just pushes it onto the next thing. Like, yeah, okay, in this moment, I could shut it down.

But then that's affecting, like you said, the next, the next thing, the next play. So yeah. Yeah. And it's like, if I and, and, you know, what I don't want is I don't want them sitting there crying the entire inning and then half the team instead of like cheering on the next guy are all trying to console them because they're empathetic kid, right?

And that, that happens a lot, right? The these kids kind of that are having this emotional experience to kind of draw half the team away because it's, it's got big hearts and they want to help. But and that can happen either. So I was trying to at least, hey, all right, 15, 20 seconds.

And then let's turn around be, be a teammate for somebody else again, does it always happen that way? No. But I'm trying to put into their mind. Like, let's process this.

Let's be frustrated or whatever. And then let's figure out how to turn a corner, right? And it's like, I'm not saying that I have the whole thing figured out, right? But, you know, I can, I can tell you what does not work, which is just trying to shut them down immediately through just like being gruff with them, you know?

Well, and I found two also like instead of telling them what not to do, telling them, hey, this is what I want to see. Are like when you're out there, look for this. You know what I mean? Because as soon as they hear, don't do this.

That's exactly what they're going to be thinking about. Like, oh, yeah, I can't do this. I can't do that. And then it's like, what, what am I supposed to be doing?

And then they mess up and it's a whole mess. But yeah, I, I'm the same way as well. I mean, and of course, like in the moment, sometimes things get heated or in a practice, right? Like, and like, there are those moments where I'm definitely not a perfect human being.

And I might be a lot of kid or something like that. But in those moments too, like, okay, I need to chalk that one up and make sure I come back around to that kid like after practice. Like, hey, you know, this is why I was so frustrated. Probably didn't handle it the best, but like, I want you to know where I'm coming from.

And just having that conversation with them too. Because I don't think kids get that from high school. They never get, they don't get sari's, they don't get, hey, I messed up. And so I think sometimes when they do hear that, they're like, oh crap, okay, like I can say sorry or like I can't forgive or you know, just opening up those doors to like helping them be adults that don't have all this baggage.

Yeah, no, that's, it's so great. And that's one of the things that if you haven't done our work, first of all, please check out our work, right? You could go do it locally in your community. You could come work with us.

But one of the major tools in our, in our method is, is called a relationship graph, right? And, and really you're exploring all the stuff that you feel unfinished with in a relationship. And usually that requires, you know, you make in some apologies, perhaps, or you figuring out how to forgive the other person for things that they did that hurt you or just significant emotional statements that you would like to make to them because they they meant something to you, you know? And so you start discovering those things.

And once, once you've utilized that tool a little bit in your life, you know, then I really do look at like any relationship, whether it's a kid on my team or a fellow coach, I look at it through a relationship graph, right? And I'm like, ooh, I could be doing this work later or I could maybe just make an apology today, right? And I love those tools practically speaking. Like you said, that just have accountability as an adult and not be a dictator out there and be like, oh, I'm the coach.

I can do no wrong. Like, like you, I have a definitely apologize to kids. And, you know, and also I feel like it is also very good to apply these skills with your coaching staff with other coaches because a lot of the time I can see a lot of unfinished stuff between coaches, right? And they're holding on to decisions made four games ago, right?

And then that adds up. And now all of a sudden, we're having an argument on this, but really we're arguing about four games ago, this call, you know? And it's like, you can really keep those relationships, your coaching staff relationships a lot cleaner if you're just like practicing some of these tools as well. So I think it's it's great for that too.

And also, um, again, just working with parents, trying to help kind of lead them and show them kind of what you're looking for as a coach, right? Because I got to tell you, uh, yeah, if you want to see some really bad parenting examples, just go to like a local travel ball baseball tournament and watch the dads just absolutely create years of havoc. And, you know, again, at some point, Kaelin or me, when we're doing grief recovery with that kid, you know, you're you're going to be the relationship graph dad. And, you know, it's it's going to I'm glad they'll be able to work through some of that with with with us because there's going to be a lot of hurt stuff that they've been holding on to.

So just remember that, you know, I try and remember that as a dad of travel ball players and stuff like that. Um, and if you're listening and you don't kind of like even understand what I'm saying. So nowadays, there's like different levels of competitiveness. And so there's, you know, you have your again, it doesn't matter if it's volleyball, soccer, baseball, football, like women, boys, girls, it doesn't matter.

When you get to like travel ball, that's just more competitive. And so that's what we're talking about is kind of competitive youth athletics and stuff like that. And again, it can it gets taken to a pretty crazy place like and and so. But again, you're in high school.

I mean, high school gets taken to a very crazy place. So does, you know, college and I mean, it's it's true all the way through all the levels. Like if you were helping players actually do some grief recovery work around whether it's stuff that's happening on the team or just hey, moms back three states away and I have a D1 scholarship. And I'm I'm hurting really bad over what's going on over here.

Do you think that player is producing what you want them to produce for you on the court? When they have a bunch of grief in their backpack? Nope. Nope.

You know, and so I would just love for coaches and and and support staff to be looking at grief as a part of this, right? Like it's it's it's only going to benefit you. And again, I'm not I know a lot of coaches personally. I know coaches that I would run off a cliff for.

You know, that that we're invested in me as a human being as a young man. Like great coaches. So I don't want to I'm not trying to say they're always just about wins. A lot of coaches are amazing human beings that really care about the kids.

And so, you know, if you're listening and you're that type of a coach, just know you can do so much more for that young adult, you know, if you just knew how to couple more tools at how to help them process unresolved grief and emotion, whether it was built up yesterday or or five years ago, you know, if you just know how to interact and kind of go first as a leader and help them process stuff, it's you're going to you're going to make a huge impact on that kids life. Yeah. Well, and I think touching on that like understanding that change, right? Like you said, all all these little things that are happening are like the expectation of even going to state.

Like that was an expectation. I thought we're going to get there. Didn't happen. Like I'm pretty sure I told you after season was over.

I was like kind of depressed. I was in a weird funk. I didn't didn't really process it. Why?

I'm like, Oh, that's right. Something that I had just been so invested in is now over. And there's a lot of stuff that, you know, you know, why I wanted to do better. I wanted more, right?

Or all of those things. And so just even just realizing that those things, like that is grief, right? Relationships, all of it. And like not putting it, like obviously when you lose somebody, we like, that's the first thing that you think about with grieving.

But I think that for me at least having, like being able to say like, Oh, that relationship, like I am grieving from that or like that, that was a intangible things like for basketball, like my relationship with basketball, like how that ended, like that's a real thing. And if it didn't end the way that you wanted it to or it ended sooner than you wanted it to. So like I just think that giving permission for those things like for kids to understand that like this is grief. And like there are steps to help you through this or like just not saying, well, that's just another part of life.

Like now we got to move on and do this. And it's like, okay, well now I'm almost 40. And I'm just now being able to like breathe through it and be okay with, you know, how my career ended or what I thought it. So because then I'm able to be there 100% for the girls.

Yes. I had a chip on my shoulder and proving myself to everybody else that I was a good basketball player. And like now I can be a great coach. Like I'm really not doing anybody any good, right?

And not there 100%. Like I said, so I just think understanding that grief has so many different facets to it instead of like what we're normally thinking of. Yeah. No, that's an excellent point.

I'm glad you brought that up. I think this actually is very, very prevalent both with coaches and also with parents, right? A lot of people, moms, dads, coaches are unfinished emotionally with how their career ended, right? And they absolutely are, that is affecting their current relationship with their players or with their children who are playing these athletics, right?

That's such a huge one. And you're right. Like it's also our job, Kaelin, right? Who you got to college basketball, Cole, I got to college baseball.

Like it is up to us to to emotionally complete our dream that maybe, you know, the hopes dreams and expectations that were unmet, right? I expected to be a professional baseball player that didn't that didn't pan out. I stopped several levels before that, you know, but that was my expectation. And if I'm not unfinished with that, right?

Yeah, I could do some wonky, wonky stuff with my kids childhood, right? And you do. You see that playing out like a lot, you know, in the different places. And so I love that you hit on that because it is our responsibility as kind of mentors and leaders in these kids' worlds to be complete with your stuff.

So that is not seeping, that's not seeping in, right? And it's like, you can still love the game. And you can still think like you can't convince me. And I could be wrong about this, but you could it'd be a hard to convince me that my boys learning the life lessons that baseball teaches you is not a good thing for them.

It's not a healthy thing for them, right? So you may be like, oh, Cole, they just play baseball because you play baseball. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that is true.

But it's also because I think it really teaches a lot of great life lessons for people. And again, I'm sure you feel that about basketball. And so, you know, but again, I love that you touched on that point. The other thing I want to touch on is the reality that we need to understand that we do put a lot more emotional stress on kids playing sports versus kids that are not playing sports, right?

And I don't know what the statistic is, but the amount of binge drinking like happening in college athletics is like pretty, pretty astronomical. And I know for me, it was that way for sure. And it was like, I was 18. I was away from home.

I had all this pressure on me. I put a bunch of pressure on me. And like my short-term energy relieving behavior was lots and lots of alcohol, right? And it's like, okay, well, they test for everything else.

So, you know, you can have alcohol though until you know, and again, a huge part of me like going down a really bad path with drugs and alcohol is the transition between athletics, competitive athletics, and then trying to find something to like cover the pain once that once that, you know, off ramp happened for me. And, you know, again, it's like, I wish we could be helping specifically the 18, the 19, the 20, the 21-year-olds that like that career is that is such a painful, painful event for like you or me. And it's like, I wish we could be delivering more grief or recovery to these kids because they are bleeding to death emotionally with these losses of these dreams. With again, the frame of reference they have in their life, which is this is this is this is the dream.

This was all that really mattered, right? Whether that was, you know, fully them. But no, a lot of the time family pushed them in that direction too. I mean, this these are devastating heartbreaking losses for young adults as my point.

And we don't really honor that, right? It's like, oh, figured out, get a job. And you're like, dude, this is the only thing you've had me doing for my whole life. Yeah.

Well, and in that position too, like hearing from an adult, like, well, at least you did this or at least you had a great time or like just minimizing the whole thing when you're like, wait a second. Like, this is my job. This is my, it's your identity. Yeah.

All of a sudden you aren't that person anymore. Like what the heck am I supposed to do? And then if you don't have those adults, like, I mean, I'll just use my dad, for example, like he just, he didn't know what to do. Like that was our relationship too was basketball.

So with basketball, like what, what were we supposed to do? And if I wasn't playing or coaching or doing anything like that, it was kind of like, all right, well, that was, that was cool. Yeah. Like, yeah, can be super devastating.

So yeah. Yeah. And let me ask you this too, because I know you are, I think a year out from your masters, becoming getting your masters in school counseling, which is super exciting. And you, and you, I think right now, like one of your roles there is, is kind of managing kids that are getting in detention and stuff like that.

Is that right? Yep. Yep. And school suspension and detention.

Yeah. Okay. And how, how has the, the certification and the grief recovery method? How has that benefited you in terms of connecting with kids seeing things, maybe other faculty don't in what kids are going through, you know, like how, how is this beneficial for you kind of in that role?

Well, I mean, to be honest, like, okay, the kids hate being in detention, right? No, I would never have thought that. So like when a kid gets sent to me, especially if it's like not their normal lunch detention group that I have, but if it's like they got kicked out of class for doing something, like the first question I asked them is like, are you okay? Like, I feel like you're having a bad day.

And like maybe they made a bad decision, like something they don't normally do, but they're doing something with their friends or they got caught up in being funny in class or whatever. So like, I usually, I just try to have a conversation with them and treat, like treat them like a human. Like, because I feel like a lot of times these kids, like especially if they're behavioral issues, like, and I see them a lot, I mean, they don't think that people care about them. They're like, well, why should I?

Because this teacher just got a target on my back. And so like, a lot of the conversations I have is like, okay, well, what were we doing? Like giving them perspective of like, okay, well, they, you might have a target on your back. This teacher might not like you, right?

But let's, let's maybe think about how we got here. So I think, and I don't know, you know, if, I mean, they're allowed conversations, but like a lot of the times these kids have things going on at home that, you know, are a bigger fight than me trying to get them to do work when they're in in school suspension. Hey, I sometimes like, if I've seen a kid more than twice in suspension, or if I see them, I see them around campus or whatnot, like, they tend to open up to me and tell me about things. And so like, knowing who they are as a person, which, I mean, obviously helps in just normal life too.

Like, when you have meaningful conversations with people, like, you, you have a bond. And so, you know, then it grows. And I don't know, these, like I said, just giving them a space to be heard. And, you know, but also holding them accountable.

And that, you know, like, well, probably not the best decision you made, but like, that's not who you are. Not your bad decision. You're just having a bad day, right? You're a good kid.

And I don't, I think that since probably, you know, kindergarten, they've been told your bad kid, like, or, you know, and it sucks to like being a parent, right? Like, the things we say to our kids, like, just even like, oh, I'm so proud of you for like getting that A that you got in class. Like, just things that are, you wouldn't think are hurtful to them, but like, starts, they, in their mind, they start like, oh, this is who I am. Like, I have to get an A every time in this class, or my mom's not going to love me, right?

Like, it's, we're dramatic, but like, that's just how kids are. So, just having an understanding, like, these kids have probably been told certain things throughout their whole life. And like, I just don't want to be another adult that sucks in their life. And they get like, I just have to do this other thing.

This woman is just going to tell me that I suck, and I have to do work. So, just, I mean, connecting with them on that level. And to be honest, like, I look at them as if they're my kid, right? Like, how would I want my kid treated at school if they just messed up?

Yeah. Right? And so, hoping, you know, that my kids would be treated the, the way that I treat these kids, obviously, hopefully, hopefully it's happening, but, yeah. So, because sometimes I will, I'll get like one kid in there.

So, we have a space to talk, right? Mm-hmm. If you could send a few kids in there, then it's just, yeah. Yeah.

But I try to just have that first conversation with them, like, hey, are you okay? Like, you seem a little upset. Like, I see their Europe set. Like, I'll come and check in with you in a little bit to see how our day's going to go.

So, yeah. That's kind of how that goes if I get kids in there. And like, they hate detention, but they like me. So, I think that's, yeah.

That's a thing. And I know we've talked about this too, but, you know, I know that some of the kids, or I don't know if it was other faculty, but, you know, it's, it's, it's being noticed that like, you are connecting with kids on an unusually high percentage basis, right? And I don't think that's a mistake. And I think, I think a big part of that just, that's a testament to who you are long before grief recovery.

You're just a really cool human being. You know, but I think too, like we've talked about it. And it's like having some other communication skills, understanding how to talk to them, not trying to always intellectualize everything when they're, you know, high school kids having primarily an emotional experience. You know, it's like, yeah, they're in school and we want them to put a bunch of cool stuff in their brain.

But it's like, they're having a very, very, very, very, very emotional experience on a day-to-day basis. With all the hormones running through them, with all the hope streams and expectations that they have, I mean, I can remember high school like it was yesterday. And I was out of my mind, right? And I was an emotional creature, right?

It's so, was there. So we're all my classmates. And, you know, and we always pretend that that's not happening as adults, right? And, and we, and it's just crazy.

So anyway, I love that conversation. We had that one time, or it was just like, yeah, I'm, you know, people are asking me, hey, how are you connecting with these students? And it's like, oh, you know, this, this is why? Because you're meeting them where they're at, right?

You're, you're hearing what they need you to hear, what they want you to hear. Right. Which no one else in the school is doing a lot of the time. Or, you know, or, you know, we all had that one or two people, whether it was the coach or the, you know, again, the counselor or the, or this science teacher, I'd usually not science teacher, usually they're up here more.

But usually it was like, you know, like, maybe I'll, you know, like an English teacher or something. But people, you know, where kids are desperately looking for people to hear them. And if you're constantly trying to intellectualize what they just told you, you're, you're missing the ball because it's not an intellectual conversation, 99% of the time. They're trying to get you to hear something emotionally, right?

And I, like, I, so yeah, like we were talking about in the beginning, like, trying to like figure everything out, right? Like, oh, this is why this, like while they're trying to tell you the story and then like, you miss, you miss the whole thing. You don't even know what's going on. And you're like, well, that, I tried to fix this problem for you.

And that's not what you came in here for. But it's funny. You say, like, all the emotions all the time, like, I'll have girls come in and like, they just broke up with their boyfriend. And I'm like, good.

But I mean, I, I sometimes I say good, because he was a bird. But, but like remembering like this right now in this moment is the biggest thing that's going on in your life. Like, like, I get it. Like, nothing else matters.

Or ever will. Yeah. No, like, just letting them know, like, okay, like, this is a lot. Like, you must be going through it right now.

And they're like, oh, yeah. And just sometimes I, and I end up hearing things that I'm like, okay, that, that is enough. We have a line right here. Like, do much information.

But, but, but, Miss Callfield, like, this is a vault, right? I'm like, it is a vault in this stage here. But like, we also have a line. Like, so, yeah.

But yeah, just, like you said, like, I think sometimes as adults, we forget, we forget that, like, breaking up with your boyfriend, you wanted to kill. I mean, okay, that's a little extreme. But, you know, like, oh gosh, this was a worse thing. Like, I'm depressed forever.

Like, I'm never going to be able to date anyone from here on out. Or, so you don't make the team. And like, now I'm just the worst player ever. Like, like, yeah, these kids are teenagers.

They're dramatic. And like you said, hormones, all the things. So, yeah. I think just remembering, like, okay, yeah.

I remember myself and the relationships I had are like, you know, failing a math test or, you know, the good feelings too, like being overly excited that you got an A on something you didn't think you're going to get an A on or, you know, working really hard on a project that you didn't think you're going to finish. So, and also, like, connecting with them and like, yeah, I went through these things too, right? Like, I didn't go through the exact thing you're going through. But like, man, like, I can feel how that could be super hard for you right now.

So, yeah. Yeah. I think just like you said, meeting them where they're at and hearing them is huge. Yeah.

No, it's really, it's great stuff. I get really energized by being around these like young guys, like doing doing the baseball stuff. And it's like, yeah, it's, I challenge adults out there. It's like, I see so many adults, you know, that look dead inside, you know, and they're going through the motions, but it's like, it's very muted and very sad to me.

Like, you could just look in their eyes and be like, oh, you know, and it's like, yeah, we can call kids in high school dramatic and at times I get it they are, but they're also like living life. Like, I think how life was meant to be live, right? And I mean, they're living, they're living big, right? And I, I tried to do that too, right?

I want that for me, right? In different ways, obviously. But I'm doing this a really random like segue, but hopefully, like, this will make sense. I was telling you off camera a little bit about this.

Like, I'm, I found this guy on the internet and he goes by, he's called Knees Over Toes Guy. And he's like a mobility guy. And so I'm doing all this physical mobility, like, but I'm acting like a kid, right? I'm doing these very weird positions that you would see like my five-year-old son and not like a 44-year-old man, right?

But it feels really good. I mean, like at times it's excruciating, not, but anyway, when I get done with the workout, I feel like I'm, you know, 18 years old, 15 years old. And it's like, it feels so good. Like I don't have to be this atrophied stiff, 44-year-old guy, right?

I can go do something to where I feel like I'm 15, maybe for just a little bit, but I can, you know what I mean? And it's like, and I want to do that emotionally too, is my point. I want to, I want to utilize tools where I can unlock openness in my heart and not be this dead inside 44-year-old guy that's like living 50% of what you could be living each day, right? Yeah.

And it's like, I trust me. I've been there. I know how to go there. I can go there and be dead inside or I can like flush the system and do some emotional work and then live like, you know, be just as stoked as these 12-year-olds on this travel ball team when we win this game, right?

And it's like, again, I got to keep it in check. It's a little silly if you see a grown man as excited as 12-year-olds. But again, I want to, I want to live big. I want to be there emotionally.

You know, and it's like, and so whether, again, whether that's doing some weird physical fitness to do that physically and unlock that old part of me physically or emotionally, like it feels, if that's where I want to be, right? And so I think that's a good place to end this because we're at our hour. But what I want to do is I want to have you back because I want to go deeper into just you at a high school on a daily basis. Like, I love this conversation and thank you for, you know, us talking about sports and athletics.

Obviously, it's near and dear to both of our hearts. And again, I think mostly because we want to get kids, like you said, access to adults that are able to help them navigate stuff that a lot of the time we're not willing or we don't want to help them navigate because it's like not our priority list. But it's like, you know, come on, guys, like, let's understand what they need help with and what they need assistance with. And it's not always the form of the free throw, right?

Most of the time it's not. I mean, yes, that's our job to help them with that. But it's like, we can help them emotionally. And they will use those skills long, long, long after their career is done.

Right? So I want to thank you for all you're doing there. Just at that high school and in your community. And, Kaelin, I know that you also do work with people doing grief recovery work.

Is that, is that, are you doing that right now? Yep. Okay. Cool.

So what's the best place for people to get in touch with you if they kind of want to, you know, connect with you with grief recovery stuff? Super great question. I wish I could say that, hey, I'm my grief recovery website. Don't have that.

Are you on our directory right now? I should be. Okay. So we'll link, we'll link to the directory on our site.

So people can get in touch with you, you know, and again, even like coaches, right? I mean, it'd be cool for you to link up with coaches or if people want to do grief recovery work with Kaelin, you can find her on our website directory, but I'll link to that in the show notes. And then, you know, again, I would love to have you for episode two where we just get into more kind of high school high school counselor type stuff too. Because I think that'd be fascinating to explore that as well.

Absolutely. I thank you so much for having me. This is really great. Awesome.

Awesome. All right. Well, until we meet again at the next travel ball tournament, which I'm sure will be this weekend. Thank you again for your time.

Thank you for being on and, you know, and we wish you and your whole team, good luck this season. And again, I think it's really, I think you're doing a real service to those young women like just getting to work with you and not only focusing on the athletic, which is important, but like you're helping them like navigate life, which is more important, right? So thank you for all you do. Thank you.

All right. And for everyone listening, thank you. Please like, subscribe, leave a review that really helps us and also share this. If you think, you know, if you have coaches in your life, if you have people that you know are dealing with young people, it's pretty stressful things like like athletics, you know, please share this.

If you think someone will get anything out of it. And until next time, this is the Feel Free again podcast, we will, we'll see you next time. Thank you.