Finding Purpose After Losing Loved Ones - It is possible with Laylani Colibri

And we've been friends for 12 years too. So that helps too. We have a good background. Yeah, that does not hurt at all.

So, you know, again, thank you for being here. And usually where we start just for the listeners is, you know, how did you come to find the method? What led you to want to do this work? Was it personal?

Was it professional? Was it both? If you could just let us know about kind of your early story with with this work? Yeah.

So I went through a massive a transformational journey. I was living on an island off the coast of Panama called Bocustel Toro in 2000. Well, from 2005 until 2008. And I received the news that my mom had died in a tragic and sudden accident.

And that moment in time, which was January 5th of 2008, was like this catalyst to basically like the rest of my life. It completely changed even though like my life was amazing. And it was, you know, I was real, I just met Aaron who you know is now my husband of, gosh, I don't know, we met 18 years ago, which is crazy. So it's been a while.

So like I was on cloud nine and then my mom died. And I, it was the catalyst for my growth. I can look back on it and be like, wow, the transformation that has occurred because of her death has been unbelievable. And at the time, I realized, and I have so much gratitude for my past self, I'm so impressed with the 25 year old me who was like, I was running a bar in a hostel in Panama.

And I was like drinking every day and doing other things, being crazy. I mean, I was a young person and wild and free. And I knew that I needed to face this tragic grief and death experience head on. And so I like quit drinking.

I actually kind of moved back to the States, went to massage, well, like did all these things to help myself. And I look back and I'm like, wow, I was so wise without even knowing how wise I actually was because as you and I know, I could have fallen into the stir, you know, stir world of short-term energy relieving behaviors. But instead, I cut out almost all the stirbs that I had been previously using to focus on really healing myself. Because I was like, if I don't, I remember having the thought, like, if I don't face this, I will never be okay again.

Wow. And like, so 25 year old me, like props to her because, like, wow, holy cow. And so, anyway, fast forward, I went on this journey of self-discovery. So I like, after going to like a very high-end private college, you know, which I decided to go to a massage school, which was very upsetting for my father.

He's like, wait, what are you doing? You know, you get the trend here, Cole. Yeah. Like, wait, what?

You're changing your name. Thank you. Wait, what? There's a lot of those with me and my dad, but I love to stretch the envelope with him.

It's really fun. I don't know what I'll do when he's not here anymore because who will I come up against, you know? But anyway, I decided to go to massage school. And then that was incredibly healing because as most of us know, like, the issues are in the tissues.

Our bodies keep the score. Like, we have, we store so much of our feelings and our grief in our bodies. So I went to massage school. That was incredible.

And then I was like, okay, there has to be more. I like, moved back to Panama, did all this other stuff. And then I became a health coach because I was like, I love health, like, health school. And I found myself as a health coach, like, talking to people, trying to like, do the thing that I was learning and talked to them about their greens and their grains.

And all they wanted to talk to me was about their grief. And I was like, that's cool. But like, are you losing weight? You know, I have this agenda because they signed up to like lose weight or whatever it was.

So I felt like, well, I have to like, honor the thing that they like came for. But reality was that was like helping them through their grief. So anyway, I remember there was this pivotal moment, which shortly, thereafter, I found grief recovery. But in this pivotal moment, in January, I think it was January of 2013, where I was like, had my dad's house.

It was the five year anniversary of my mom's death. And I was like, Dad, you know, do you think I can make this health coaching thing work? And my dad is a financial advisor and a very pragmatic man. Like, he's a wonderful loving person.

And he's very, right, he's very left brained. So like, all I wanted as you can imagine is him to be like, of course you can. Like, you can do anything. And his answer was like, let's get out the spreadsheets and see if the numbers work out.

And I was like, go like the frustration. That's all you want to hear. No, I was like, just say yes. And I remember like going to my bedroom, the bedroom that I grew up in my childhood home, right?

And I was like, I've said to Aaron, I was like, if my mom were here and I like, crying, like my mom were here, she would know what I should do. And I just was like, I, I felt like cried myself to sleep, basically. And I was like, mad at my dad, but not really. I just was like mad at the situation that my mom wasn't there.

And like, and so I wake up at like four in the morning. And this had never happened to me before. I did not, I grew up being Jewish like not. It's not as like, I was not a spiritual person at that point really.

And not religious really either. And I remember I woke up and I was like, oh my God, mom, where are you? I could feel my mom's presence in the room. I couldn't like see her anything, but I felt it.

And all of a sudden, this message came through that said, love, loss, love, love, loss, love, love, loss, love. It was kind of like the 0100100 in the matrix. Like that's what was happening. Like, love, love, love, love, love, like hundreds of thousands of times.

Until finally, it like was like, okay, so I wrote it down in my phone. I like pulled out my phone, air and sleep, and I love, love, love. And then I was sending like more stuff started coming in. It was like, oh my God, I drew my first logo.

Like the tree with the like leaves like like full bloom. And then the death of the tree, like all in one, I like wrote my first talk. I crafted my first program that became surviving to thriving. Like I did, so then I don't go to sleep.

So, of course, you can imagine, like I've been up now. My dad wakes up at like 830. I've been like, writing all night long. And my dad comes into his office and I was like, dad, mom came to me in the night.

And again, you can imagine he was like, okay, that is not part of our familial belief system. And so we're like an angel family. And so he's like, but his curiosity was like, tell me what happened, you know. And so I was like, telling him I was like, dad, I think I'm supposed to help people love their life after loss.

Like I think I'm here to help people love their life after loss. But like, I have no idea what that means or how to do it. Except for all these notes that I took me last five hours. Right.

Right. And so then I became like on a mission to, so I crafted this whole thing. I started this thing called surviving to thriving, which was a holistic approach to healing after loss. It was like about getting in your body.

And all the things that I had done for the last five years, like getting clean, like making sure that like you're not stirbing all the time, which I didn't know the word stirbing yet. But like, so and then so I started researching. I was like, I need to learn more about grief. I don't know enough about grief.

And I read, like you know me, I love reading. And I was like, I read 50 books probably. And every book was like, like, okay, whatever. Like great.

And I took things here and there and they were interesting. But like every book I found a problem with. And then I found the grief recovery handbook. And I devoured that book in less than one day.

I was like, Aaron, this is it. Like, this is fucking it. Like I was so sorry. But I was so seriously like, I was so amazed at what I was reading because it was so aligned with everything I already knew in my heart and soul.

But it was like written on paper. And I was like, this is the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my life. And that night, I have a I'm a very vivid dreamer. I had this dream that Aaron died.

And I haven't heard this story. I didn't know this part. Oh, yeah. So in the dream, I'm holding, well, let's see if I can find it.

I'm holding this book in my hand. It wasn't the 20th anniversary expanded edition because I didn't exist yet. I was holding this book. And I was like, I think so I know what to do.

Wow. And I woke up the next day. And I called the number in the book that this book doesn't have the number. But the old book had the number on it.

And I called the number and you answered the phone. You answered the phone. And we talked and I was like, Hey, like I really want to come. But I'm like a poor 26 or whatever, 20, 30 year old person.

And I can't like fly to any other places yet. And the next one. So this is in, you know, maybe February or March of 2013. The next one that was in Texas, which is I was living in Austin at the time.

The next one in Texas was in December. And I was like, that's a long time to wait. But I was like, All right, well, in the meantime. So again, you know me.

In the meantime, I took 30 people through the grief recovery method using the book. I would call friends who I knew had like lost loved ones or gone through divorce or something. I'd be like, Hey, can I send you a book and do this work with you? And they were like, Okay, weirdo like yes.

Sure. So Aaron's mom was actually my first target. She went through it with me. And I read I read the book like 30 plus times and had taken over 30 people through the method before I even came to certification in December.

So this is a and I have a little part of the story of this to you around certification, but keep going. And then I'll I want to say a couple things. So so December rolls around and Cole is my instructor. You are my person.

And we were in Houston or somewhere near Houston, woodlands or something. And during the morning, the first morning, and this is my version. So you'll have to tell your version of my version that morning, there were like you were doing a great job, but there would be things where you'd be like, you know, like and I feel like what about the Cole window story? Like and I raised my hand like guided suggestions of like things that like and and during the first break, you called me over outside.

You're like, Hey, and I was like, Yeah, what's up? It's like cool. You're like, did my dad send you here? Yeah, well, let me just say for the audience, right?

Just a little piece of this. And I want to hear you're taking more than mine. But so for the audience, that was my first training ever that I did by myself. So for several years, I followed my dad around the country in Canada.

I attended every Russell training that was in LA and then other trainers. So I had I had kind of road shotgun on a lot of trainings with a lot of amazing trainers. But this was the first one where it was like me and a room, nobody else, right? And so I and I didn't tell anybody in the trainer.

I'm like, these are these are paying people want to get certified. They don't need to know that like all this is going on internally. But yeah, so so that's my first training ever. And then and then lay Lonnie is like and again, and what that means is I'm covering a lot of stuff, but I don't have like the book like they're not going through the book with me.

And I'm covering a lot of stuff that's not in the book. So there's a lot of stuff I'm needing to get to. And a lot of the time you don't get to all of it, but any part I didn't get to lay Lonnie would would raise her hand and be like, uh, cool. And then you're going to get to this part, right?

And so she would like help me along. And so that's why in the break, I'm like, and I wouldn't put it past my dad or Russell just because they had such a love for the method. Like I wouldn't put in passive to put a plant in the audience to help me make sure I cover all the topics because I used to remember when I was training in LA, I would have Russell Friedman and John James in the back of the room like this, right? So I'd have like a row of people.

And then I'd have both of them and they'd be like whispering to each other. And I'd be like, did I miss something? And then they would like give me notes. And I remember one time Russell was like trying to tell me word for word what I should be saying.

And I'm like, Russell, I love you, but me and you're different. And I cannot repeat the whole training verbatim. You know, I love how you do it. But there's just no, you gotta let me have a little bit more slack.

So anyway, that's that's a little background of all the craziness that's happening. And then, you know, Laylonnie's here helping me out. So anyway, go back to you. So we're in the, so we're back, we're back in the like outside of the room where we've all been certified.

You know, these hotel rooms were all sitting in the little semi-circle. And again, Cole's doing great. So I'm like confused by the question. He's like, did my dad send you here?

I'm like, no, why? And he's like, don't tell anybody, but this is my first training I've ever done by myself. And you just keep like helping me every time I'm like, not sure where to go next or whatever you're like giving me these. And I was like, oh, well, that's awesome.

And you said, do you want to be a trainer? And I was like, uh, like what you're doing? And you're like, yeah. And I was like, oh, hell yeah.

Like, of course I do. This stuff is like gold. I will do anything to help people understand and do this method. Like this is amazing.

And you're like, well, if you're serious and like, let's talk through the weekend, but if you're serious, then come to bend in March. You can stay with me and Ashley, my wife. And, and we'll have your first, you'll meet my dad and we'll do your first like potential trainer thing. So by break day one, but it was because I'd read the book 30 times.

Yeah, let me, yeah, let me jump in here real quick. So just in case you're not familiar with this work, right? We certify people in our methods. So you come and you get certified.

And that's what Laylonny was there to do is to get certified in this work and then go out there and help her community. So kind of in tandem with that, there's like 10 people in the whole world that are certified to be the trainer to step into this room and train 10, 15, 20 people in this, right? So it's like pretty sacred stuff. And I want to say I'm pretty positive actually.

So before that, right? Everyone in the history of grief recovery was chosen by my dad or Russell. And it would be almost this like round table like, Hey, do you know this person? This is who I want as the next trainer.

Well, I don't know them. I want to meet him. Okay. Well, let's invite him to the next one.

And so it was like a lot of of that. And Laylonny was the first person I got to choose. And you know, like she's saying, I train a lot of magnificent people who are highly skilled, highly empathetic, have bring other amazing tools to the work. Like it's the usual is that people come here who are already professionally very high level at what they do.

And because of that, they go, Oh, I have a hole in my game. And people keep talking about grief. And you know, it wasn't covered in my training. I don't care if you're a therapist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a coach, a massage therapist, a funeral director, nobody touches this subject properly in school.

Okay. Not, I don't mean to sound mean or arrogant. It is just how it is to this day right now. When professionals even say that to us, it's not working.

Yeah. After five minutes and they trust you and they know they're not out to get you. And they can feel that you have a real respect for what they do. Just not around grief.

They'll be like, Yeah, because we don't spend any time in it. Right. And I thought that was crazy. And yeah.

So anyway, I see a lot of people who I could see right then in the moment, eventually, you know, Hey, you, I think you have what it takes to be a trainer. Because there's certain things we're looking for. But never on day one, have I ever been like, Oh, yeah, this person should be a trainer. It was clear that, you know, you didn't go down the suggested path agree for cover.

But as you can tell, Leilani doesn't always go down the suggested path of pretty much anything. But I was willing to kind of be like, Okay, cool. Because again, she was so familiar with the method. You could see that she loved the method.

You could see that she had applied it to herself. You could see that she was comfortable working with other people with the method. And so yes, absolutely like I, yeah, day one is like, Hey, let's talk about this as a future plan. So I said to cool, like that later that weekend, I said, cool, I think we need to make this an online training.

Yeah. And it's like my dad and Russell will never, ever, ever, ever do that. And then I think it was like eight years later or something. No, maybe six years later.

But Cole calls me and I still remember I was driving and he said, Okay, so I'm going to let you pilot the online training. And I was like, Yeah, I mean, I think I like actually probably screamed in your ear with such joy and enthusiasm. Because I could see how important it was going to be for us to stay relevant, meaning the grief recovery institute to stay relevant with the growth and technology. And I feel like you and I, Cole have always been like kind of pushing the envelope.

Even when like when your dad and Russell were both alive, it was like we were kind of always pushing up against kind of like I do with my dad, like pushing up against their comfort to try to like progress forward into areas that haven't been explored yet. You know, so like you're also what's it called a bold explorer kind of like I am, I might be a little weirder than you, but like I feel like you're also kind of off the beaten path. And I think that's why I'm going. I'm absolutely I'm planning weird too.

But yeah, and again, I also like the term disruptor, right? I'm hearing that more too, like disruptor. Yeah. And again, I think in any organization, you really need that, right?

You need different generations. You need different looks. You need different, you know, diversity of thought and people to really kind of identify and push things. And it's like before us, right?

People were like calling in about, hey, can we do this work over the phone? Right? And so there was like different people trying to propose, propose different kind of virtual ways to do this. And Mike Strick actually has a has a really interesting part of the story too that we don't need to get into right now.

But, but absolutely, I am so grateful that it was like people like you and other people were really pushing for this. And, and I had to kind of gain enough, frankly, trust with my dad and Russell that this wasn't just like another two-year stint for me. And then I was going to find something else, right? It's like I had to kind of try gain their trust in terms of, oh, this, this, this kid that we know as a, this, you know, kid really does love the method and really does want to be a steward of it long term and not like, you know, change it or just on or what what our tenants are.

But like you, I was like, guys, the internet is not going anywhere, right? As much as you guys don't want it to be the case, right? You guys are, you love in your smartphones and your social media and you know, you guys are living it. You don't want it to be for a grief or a recovery, but it needs to be.

And I am so grateful to God that we all really did disrupt and make that happen because we were, I think we were really piloting and running stuff by 2017 and look at COVID, you know, by COVID, we would have had you, but we wouldn't have known what what we would have been ready. But we had already been doing it for over a year by then. 2017 is when I started, when we talked, 2018 is when I started writing out the advanced curriculum and then 2019's when we started. So we were like a year ahead of COVID. I thought we, okay, wow, I thought we were doing it piloting it in like 2018 and even earlier, but really it was only a year.

Well, you, you called me in 2017 because Kai was a baby and I was like, I can't keep doing the travel because Aaron is going to kill me. And I won't be able to do it anymore. Because the two kids changed the game, you know, for me traveling and do that. Yeah.

So anyway, God, it's, it's been such an amazing, amazing journey. And I love, I love, I still to this day love the methods so much. I actually was talking to my mother-in-law who also became a grief recovery method specialist. And she was, she came to my certification one year in San Antonio years ago now.

And she was going through some stuff recently and I was like, Hey, have you done, have you done a graph on that yet? Have you done, you know, have you looked at that relationship through the lens of grief recovery yet? And she's like, no, I was like, I'm here. You have me at your disposal.

So why don't you as soon as you finish doing the parts? So you do the relationship graph. You write the letter and then you text me, you'll make time. I'm like, of course, I'll make time.

So last night, we did another, we did another letter for her. And it was awesome. And I'm so, so glad that like, that that can be something. And it's like, you know, what Ed and I were talking about before about, you know, this is a fundamental part of my relationship with Aaron, my husband, and you know, like with my mother-in-law, my, my, my, my, my bonus mom, my dad remarried after my mom got married.

She came to a grief recovery certification in Houston. She's a doctor and she was like, God, I wish I had known this stuff when I was younger and my younger years because now she's retired. But you know, it just has been such a gift to my entire family. And I only wished my brother and my father had gone through because I keep, you know, every time I go to my dad's house, I stick the grief recovery handbook off of his shelf and put it on his desk like, right.

And then he wouldn't listen to that. So I wrote my own book. And then I was like, now I'm going to stick this one. Like maybe he'll read it if it's my book because you like want to read their book.

Yeah. He says he's read it. I want to believe I might as don't know. Well, if, if you can work, I know we're coming to Austin and it's going to be me and another trainer.

I don't know the dates yet, but we're coming to Texas and I would love to have your dad in that. That would be awesome. Or your brother. Yeah.

Well, my brother lives in DC. So let me know when you're in Virginia. Oh, well, no, we're going to be in New Jersey for sure too. So I'll let you know about kind of that East Coast date.

Okay. That would be awesome. So okay. So let's, let's shift if you're willing.

I would love to talk because again, offline, this is a true story. I'm like two minutes before who I know at this point is Laura is about to get on this podcast, right? And Ed is like, by the way, Laura changed her name. Yeah.

She's like, he's like, Laura changed her name. And I'm like, what? And then he's like, yeah, it's it's Lailani. And I'm like, okay, I'm like confused.

And then, and then you jump on and then you have a different last name too, right? And now I'm like, really confused, right? There could be a lot of possibilities with that. And I and you explain, you know, your journey and I told you a 10 second version of it, but yes, right, right.

And and, you know, again, I don't I don't think I don't think we have time to get into the full story here. But what I do want to explore, which I think will be really kind of beneficial for our listeners is, you know, part of that story was, hey, I just I want to live my truth, you know, I want to live for my happiness and sometimes in grief recovery, one of the elements of that is teaching on allowing yourself to make decisions that satisfy you that don't necessarily need to satisfy everyone around you, right? And that is a version of loving yourself, right? And sometimes loving others is allowing them to make their own choices without any insistence that they satisfy you.

Obviously, this is easier said than done. This is high level to tell you the truth. If I'm not a spiritual giant on a given day, I this is one of the hardest concepts for me to grasp and apply, right? I am a judgmental think I know it all type of individual.

I'm trying to get better at it. But, you know, the reality is I met Ashley my wife when we were, you know, at ninth grade. And then we started dating romantically when we were in our early 20s, right? Now we're now in our early 40s.

And it's like, look, there is plenty of ways that like Ashley wanted to grow as a woman, right? And I have to, I have to allow her to make the changes and grow in the direction she wants to grow, right? Same with her with me. And so luckily, we were kind of doing this because we were aware of this.

But anyway, more so than that, like what what happens if we don't know how to do that is we become peaceful pleasers, right? And some of us listening, understand, and unfortunately, I've taken that to a very extreme level, right? Where it's like, I'm living my life for other people. I'm chasing degrees for other people.

I'm chasing professions for other people. You know, and obviously it's easy for us to think of young people going down that road. But I'm talking 30, 40, 50, 60 year olds out there who are scared to make their own decisions because they're scared that they won't allow other people to be happy with that decision, right? And that's that's so anyway, I just want to set the table for what I'd love to explore with you, Laylaunny, because you know, you made this really kind of courageous decision that doesn't make sense to me on paper, nor does it need to, right?

But the point is you were allowed to because it was like what what you wanted to do, right? So if you don't mind, could we just explore that kind of part of this? I'm excited to announce our premium in person certification training individuals who have a desire to help other people with grief and loss join us for a four day event that you will remember forever. This is based on the proven four day certification we've done before.

The curriculum is the same, but now you're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from Sandy. These are tangible tools that help people in any area of their life. You're going to get a ton of stories and education and training from me. We will have double the amount of trainers to answer questions you have.

I want to help people by missing information, this missingly. I'm an advocate for the grieving process because I know that's like why would you not tell someone to heal? There's going to be some tears in there, there's going to be some tissues, but well I think what will surprise people that are considering this training is if you sat outside of the room when this training is happening, you wouldn't believe how much laughter is happening in this training. You wouldn't believe how much joy and hope you can see on people's faces as we're breaking and people are coming out of the room.

It's everything. The thing she was saying made me feel seen and normal and validated and not insane. I saw grief as this really bad dark thing instead of seeing it as the actual healing process. As someone who's been in this field for 15 years now, I would have loved to have been trained under these circumstances.

It's just such a premier training. You're going to probably walk away with some like lifelong friends. We did not want to say goodbye to each other at that end of that four days. I'd be able to help walk them through that and give them that same light bulb that came on in my head and it was a trend that's transformative.

It was such a rich time of learning and engaging, listening to people's stories, being present, being focused with who you're talking to, is such a big part of the grief recovery work. I had done a lot of things I'd done coaching. I'd been in therapy. I'd done a lot of other modalities and they were helpful.

But when I did the grief recovery method and when I walked through the method and continued to use the tools, life began to have color. I went from being very emotionally disconnected to being very connected. Do not wait. Seeds are filling up.

Sign up. You will not regret it. I cannot wait to see you. Have a great day.

I'd love to tell you a little story about me and I, my 10-year-old daughter. I was a year and a half ago or so. I was rinsing her off in the shower. She had put a big tattoo on my arm at a birthday party.

This was a really cool funky tattoo. I love that tattoo on you. I'm rinsing her off. She's eight years old at the time.

I love that tattoo. I was like, oh yeah, me too. It's so awesome. It's so cool.

She's like, you should get one there. I was like, yeah, I can't. She goes, what do you mean? Why not?

I was like, oh, Papa would be so upset with me, which is my dad. And Ila, who you know, but she side-eyed me like nobody's business. She was like, hi, this. She's like, mama, you are 40 years old and no one can tell you what to do with your party.

And then I sing on the cake and she goes, and you know, Papa would love you anyway. And I was like, I'm not really sure, but yes, of course he would. But like, so that is how deep it goes. I'm 40 years old and I'm afraid to get a tattoo because of how disappointed I will make my father.

And so that has been a huge struggle for me most of my adult life, probably more so since my mom died because my mom was such an advocate for my free spirit. And so I kind of had somebody on my side to be wild and free. And then she was gone. And the thought of disappointing my living parent became, the stakes became a lot higher because I only have one.

And if I lose him, even if it's just in a strange, meant not a death, but if I lose him, if I lose his love, then I'm alone. Even though I married, I have kids. And so the grief journey, it was such a sneaky little thing because it was like the grief of my mom's death influenced my fear of losing my father living or dead. And so it raised these people pleasing, not so much in the world, but with him.

Like my fear of losing him was so big that so anyway, when I told my dad about my new name, which was a year ago on my birthday week, so it's actually coming up. I was like, so I'm I have some really important things to talk to you about. I'm really scared. And I teach communication for like difficult communication for a living.

So I used all I feel like I like had been training my past self for years so that I can, that's conversation. And basically I was like, so there's this really scary thing that I don't want to tell you, but I feel like I have to tell you because I, you know, I need you to know because I don't want you to hear from somebody else, or that would be really tough. And so he's like, you know, then he's like, what is it? You know, it's so scared.

And I was like, so I'm changing my name. And he's like, okay. And so I go on this whole thing. And I was like, and I'm getting a tattoo on my wrist, which I did.

I want on both wrist, but, and he's like, and he makes some snarky comment like, and share in my bonus mom, who was a dear friend of my mother's and who I've known since I was eight years old. So she loves me. And I love her. And I'm so, I'm so lucky.

But she, so my dad's like, oh, geez, like something like that. And I was like, I literally just was like, hey, be patient with me real quick. Like, don't make any snarky remarks. I literally have like, just said, please just hold your judgment for like a few minutes while I tell you this story.

And I, the Jan Schiff in me, which was my mother, like reaches over, slaps my, like back hands, my dad's arm, the way my mom would have. And it was like, Michael Schiff. Like, I literally, like, it was like such an embodiment of my mother. It was so funny.

And Sharon too, it was like, Michael, she just told you, you know, and she just told you so anyway, he spends the rest of the time listening patiently and kindly and lovingly. And, um, and at the end of this whole walk, he's like, well, if you ever decide to legally change your name, just let me know. So I can help you because otherwise it's just a big mess. And I feel like you, you want to do it right.

And, um, that was his way of saying I still love you, basically. Yeah. Was because from his pragmatic perspective, like the legality part is really important to him. He doesn't want it to like mess with my inheritance or like, you know, whatever it is.

Yeah. And, and so, and, and so we hugged. And, and as they were leaving Sharon's like, by Le Launy, and like the child inside of me was like, and my dad's like, oh, he by Le Launy, it was so, it was such a joy-filled moment because of, I had so much fear that I, you know, loving yourself is, you know, the ability to allow others to make their own choices without them saying, no, that's loving others. But living myself is like, I can make my own choices without the need to satisfy other people.

That is hard. It is so hard, especially when you've been raised, I think, especially for women, but I think all across the board, we're trained so well to make sure other people are okay. And I think that's a beautiful quality to care about other people and take them into consideration. And then ultimately, expanding our capacity to deal with the discomfort of disappointing other people.

And so this name change, like I've always prided myself on being so relatable and can connect with anybody and like, never rocking the boat and like, just being a good girl. And even though like some of my choices maybe didn't follow that path, like moving to Central America after college or going to massage school, or, you know, like they're have, and he's like, and like, this is next level. Like changing my name first in name is like next level, disappointing other people. Slash the discomfort of like people thinking I'm weirdo.

Right? It's like, oh my god, people are going to think I'm so weird. And I was like, okay, can I love myself in any way, even if other people don't? And most likely they won't care.

It's not like it's their life. Like it's not like, you know, some people will and some people won't. And like, can I be okay? Can I love myself anyway?

And that has been the question of the day for two and a half years. Can I love myself even if other people think I'm not great or and there's a huge amount of grief related to that because it's a big change, you know, the conflicting feelings that come with the change, right? It's like, this is a massive change. Yep.

Yeah. So anyway, that's my part of the story. No, I appreciate that. And I think it's great insight.

And it's, and that's why I wanted to discuss it because it's so right. Like it's it's so front and center, obviously, in your life. I'm like, how can we, how can we not address this and also just use it for a moment for, for people listening? Because what I see, right, is, is depending on your, your childhood, okay?

And depending on the authority figures in your life, putting into your belief system a bunch of stuff, some of us pick up, you're not going to make mommy or daddy happy. And we're in fact going to be unhappy or depressed or be in the room and really sad if you don't do what we tell you to do and be who we think you need to be. I was just actually because I don't have enough podcasts. I just started a different dad podcast with my buddy.

And we were, yeah, I'm excited. We haven't released it yet. But I was I was shooting episodes with him yesterday. And like his one of his stories is he was in a hardcore band.

So hardcore is like heavy metal like even past that, right? And, and his, but now he's in tech, right? He's got glasses. He's like a very put together tech guy.

And so like, just to give you how, how the juxtaposition of this, the other day, why it was, my son, why it was watching a YouTube video of one of his shows and he's a guitarist and he like, like, there's people staged diving in front of him and why it's like, I'll never look at Sam the same, you know, like he just couldn't wrap his brain about the duality of what he was seeing with, you know, this, this friend of mine that he's never seen this side of it. Anyway, long story short, I was telling about grief for covering and we're talking about how, again, mom and dad can put a lot in our belief system that ends up not being our belief system, right? It's a belief system of what our parents wanted us to be. And he's like, oh, I get it.

They always wanted me to be this kind of like, uh, bohemium artist, you know, rock and roll guy. Well, guess what? He became that. But all of a sudden, because of the course of his life or whatever, he's he's in the corporate world and he's, and he sang them himself like, am I built for this?

Am I smart enough to do this? Am I capable of doing this? Cause like mom and dad were always telling him you're going to be this kind of like, they were always kind of pushing him in that artist direct, right? But turns out he's a very analytical kind of more like your dad, like he has that capability too, but he struggled with it because of just, I'll get an unfinished emotional stuff from his past.

And sometimes people get stuck on the term grief, like, you know, I would say, oh, that's unresolved grief. But really what you could just say is he's unfinished with some of the emotional stuff from his childhood, right? If grief doesn't resonate with you, it's like, oh, he just has unfinished emotional work to do. Uh, I like to call it clearing the emotional cookies of our lives because he's like, kind of brings in the tech term.

Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Clear in the emotional cookies that have been like kind of stuck in there, but they don't need to be in there anymore. Exactly.

And the, the, the, the, you know, what I love is that no one ever showed him that, right? So he didn't know, oh, I can, you mean I can clear some of this emotional stuff, which will free me up to go where I want to go as an adult man, right? And that's, and that's what you're doing. And that's what I'm doing.

And then other people, right, because of their upbringing, right? So like for me, I don't have the people pleasing side to me very much. But what I do have is the opposite of that, which is I think I should have an opinion and judgment on any decision anyone makes, right? And it's like that I've wasted so much time.

I've pushed people away, friendships, I've, you know, struggled in my marriage with this idea that it's like, you know, others have to make decisions that satisfy me or, or, or else, you know, or I have a problem with it. And it's like, so I need to focus more on that of practicing loving others by allowing them to do whatever they want to do. Like, I'm not going to lie when Leilani tells me that she changed her name. I have some thoughts and some feelings on it, right?

And I have to, I have to stop and I have to be like, I love this person. She made a choice for her. I don't need to understand it. I don't need to think it's the right or wrong choice.

Like all of that, right? And so it took me a couple of minutes to kind of get to that like, Hey, I love you. Like, are you happy? Cool.

Is, you know, and, and I think like the one where I struggle with this topic is sometimes this stuff is risky, right? Sometimes these choices we make to satisfy ourselves could be risky, right? So for, for this is an extreme, right? And I don't think anyone would disagree with me.

But it's like, if I made the choice to have an affair on Ashley without any insistence that it satisfies her, right? That's a pretty risky way to love myself, right? And she very well could be like, well, that's great that you're making choices that don't satisfy me. And by the way, here's the divorce papers, right?

So that's obviously an extreme of like, like, you kind of got a, again, depending, is it, is it my marriage? Is it my parents? Like, where do I live with them? That where do I make choices?

And it's like, so you made that choice. Like, Hey, this choice is for me. And, you know, and again, the other person, your dad, they had, they have an option, right? They, they don't even have to agree with the choice, right?

But we hope that they can do grief recovery, any there, forgive you for the choice, or maybe they do end up accepting the choice. Again, it does, I don't know the details, but that's the beauty of grief recovery is you can have people living their life. And then sometimes that hurts the feelings of other people. And they're, and then they have tools on how to unpack that.

And then we can still, you know, be this, right? Totally. Yeah. Now I hear you, I totally do.

And I think it's always a spectrum, right? So like, I might be better at loving others and like looking out for their thing and the struggle I have is loving myself. And you might be like, I have these things, I trust myself, I love myself. And I'm going to need to like lean into loving others, no matter what their choices are, whatever that looks like.

And kind of like with anything, you know, we don't have to, you know, guilt that we talk about guilt and grief recovery as like the intention to harm. And, and we ask ourselves like, Hey, did you have an intention to harm? Say you didn't get to like be at the deathbed of your grandmother and you're devastated by that. And, and we ask the question, did you have any intention to harm?

And they're like, of course not, right? That doesn't mean there wasn't impact, right? So it's like, if I have an affair because I'm doing something that satisfies me, like we have to look underneath that because most likely the affair is actually a stirb. And we need to understand like, what is actually going on underneath here?

Is this actually loving myself? Is this loving myself? Or is this kind of in defiance of the relationship, right? So I, I think that when I think about like loving self or others on a spectrum, I think about it as like where do I need to lean in?

If I am a judgmental, if I am not a judgmental person, I'm like, whatever people do, like, I love you, I can probably have, I can probably find the reason and compassion for you and give you the benefit of the doubt. And like sometimes that actually is an allowance that isn't healthier safe for me. So that means that I actually need to lean into being like, and boundary. Like actually that's not okay for me that you do that.

I understand why you did, but the impact doesn't feel good. And therefore I can choose two or not to be in relationship anymore, right? So I think that's kind of what it comes down to for me is just like for you, you're like, I need to lean into loving others and like accepting them as they are a little bit more. And I'm like, I need to work on boundaries and being more acknowledging like that I am allowed to have boundaries around what is or isn't okay for me in relationship.

So anyway, it's just really cool to think about it from that perspective, I think, because then it can, people can resonate with one or both of us be like, oh, sometimes I'm like that and it also can depend on the person who it is with. Like it might be one way with Ashley and one way with the kids and one way with your mom and one way with a friend. And that's all unique too, right? So each relationship being so unique.

Absolutely. No, that's a great point. And again, like a lot of, I know we throw a lot of concepts out there. You know, we have much more like in four days during the certification, we're throwing concepts at you basically like the whole time.

And then guess what, we don't even cover everything we want to, right? So there's a lot of concepts in this work and a lot of them are kind of, you know, kind of take it or leave it like, hey, do these resonate with me? Does this one definition, definition resonate with me? Do I see where?

Wow, I'm not making choices that satisfy me because I'm scared other people like, and then other people, the other one. But I will say that like these concepts in our world don't work without the other things. So in other words, right? I have a, I have a problem when we just out there in society say, just get better boundaries.

Just figure out what your boundaries are, right? It's like, well, if I'm unfinished with dad or I'm emotionally incomplete for 35 years of pain and hurt from our relationship, really, it's really not that easy to just set a boundary. But if I go and do a bunch of emotional completion work on that so that I can actually feel like our, our relationship is different right now because of this work I did now, all of a sudden, maybe I have more access or capability to, to honor boundaries or know what boundaries really to set. So our, I think, you know, in my opinion, go do the grief recovery work on these different relationships and then, right, then we can decide, okay, like, boundary will likely change too, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So like, say I'm mad at dad and for 35 years, this is not my family, right? But like, say I'm mad at dad, I might have the boundary that I am not in relationship with dad.

And then I do my grief recovery work. And then the boundary gets to be different because I'm like, hmm, maybe I'm going to tip it toe back into, and I remember, there were a lot of people who went through the grief recovery certification and who I took through grief recovery who are like, just because I forgive them, do I have to be in relationship with them again? And the answer is, of course not, you get to decide. And just stay open to the possibility that you may be open to it, like, it may change, right?

So like, it just also honors that boundaries can adjust and the grief recovery work can really help us authentically adjust the boundary based on how we actually feel once we complete unfinished business. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

Well, well said, that's a great way to look at it. And, and, you know, I think to one thing we haven't quite mentioned yet is this happens very, very early on in terms of we teach our children in society that others are responsible for our feelings completely. And, and therefore we are 100% responsible for other people's feelings, right? And it doesn't really work that way.

And, and again, I don't think we have time to break that down. But if, you know, if I tell my son, you know, at your mom's sleeping upstairs, don't wake her up or you're going to make her really mad, right? I'm telling my child that he has the capability to make Ashley feel a way. Now, if she wakes up and she is mad, you know, that, that is true, that just happened.

But she created those feelings in her, right? She could have just as easily woken up and been like, oh, well, it's time to get up anyway. Or, oh, I'm so excited to go garden. Like, you know, like we all have those, those times where we kind of convince ourselves that others made us feel that way.

But biologically speaking, we're producing the feelings based based on on our, our makeup and, and internally, right? And again, this isn't to say that we're, I'm not saying that like parents and big people can't make little people feel don't, so don't misunderstand me, right? We can do people humanity can do horrible things and make kids feel ways. We can manipulate them and control their whole environment.

I'm talking about as big people, right? As Lailani as Cole, we're a grown adults, like we're learning how to adjust our relationship with our living parents who are older or in our marriages, like it is our responsibility to understand that it is our responsibility to produce the feelings that we want regularly in our day to day lives, right? And we're not wind up toys and we don't have buttons on our back where someone just pushes a button and then we don't get a vote in how, how we react, right? So I just wanted to touch on that component of this because that will also help people be like, oh, you know what?

I don't actually want to become a lawyer. And if my mom, you know, says that she's just not going to be happy unless I become a lawyer, that's on mom. That's mom's work to do because I only, you know, maybe get one life. And so I better figure out what I want to do to make myself happy, right?

And so it's just again, there are a lot of things, that's what I love about this podcast. There's so many things that you would not kind of pick up on if you just read the grief for Curry Handbook or if you just said, Oh, grief for Curry, what is that? Right? It's like, Oh, you know, this is, this can be so much more in so many different areas.

So, you know, the new ones of that, I just want to say something to that real quick because I really do, you know, we have this philosophy in our house, like nobody can make you feel anything without your permission, you know, like the quote by Eleanor Roosevelt, I think it was, is that right? I think I don't don't don't quote me on that. But yeah, I don't remember, but it's actually in the grief for Curry Handbook too, but it's hilarious. But anyway, and so like the language you make me so mad is like not allowed in our house.

It's and so I am mad and that's okay. Like so yesterday, for example, I love really, so I live in this phase where she wants to be twinsies with people at school, friends at school, right? And so they want to dress the same. And so last night she comes home and she's like, Hey, I want Birkin stocks by tomorrow.

Yeah. And I was like, that sounds nice. And no, like, yeah, yeah, I'm willing to like explore that we can look into it. It's not happening before tomorrow.

Yeah, right? Like, yeah. Okay. And so anyway, she's really disappointed and she's mad.

I'm like, totally makes sense that you're disappointed in mad. Like I can see why you would be disappointed in mad. And you're allowed to have those feelings. Curious.

And then later I was like, let me know when you're through it. And or if you need me to help you process it, like, there's a lot of things that we can talk about here. And so, but it was so interesting because I wasn't like, she wasn't like, you make me so mad. I hate you.

It's like, yeah, I'm making a decision because of like timing. I'm taking into consideration 75 things before I make my decision, right? It wasn't like I was like, no, I was like, let's look online and see if there are any. And just so you know, it's probably not going to happen before tomorrow.

And before bed, she was sad. She was crying, she was mad. You could see her like, huffing about. And I was like, is this, is this still about the shoes or is there something else going on?

And she's like, no, it's still about the shoes. And I was like, okay, could we took a big break from it? Like, didn't talk about it. And she was fine.

And then she was like upset again. She started thinking about it, you know, thoughts become feelings or actions, etc. So anyway, what's so cool though is that then we talked through it. I listened.

I heard her evaluated her feelings. And then she was like, and I was like, hey, you know, like tomorrow isn't going to be the day that you match that. You'll match the other parts of the outfit. And if in a week from now, you still want those shoes, let's talk about it because you did, she just completed a really big thing at school.

And I was like, I want to get you a present. It's just not going to be for tomorrow. You know, and so, and we went to bed with this beautiful resolution. We both, like we hugged it out.

She was totally laughing. She's like, I'm going to sleep on it and decide if these are shoes that I really actually want. I look great. I love that.

So anyway, it's just, I really wanted to bring it to life because it like happens in our day to day experience all the time, right? All the time. As parents, as friends, as colleagues, as everyone. Like no matter who we are, we have to interact with other humans.

And that these are things that happen. Yeah. No, I love that. What a great example.

And that's, you know, one of the things I love about having kids is there's just constant. There's constant examples of the stuff, right? So like, what Lani just did is she helped her daughter get emotionally complete with a moment in time, right? And there will probably be some new moments in time.

If tomorrow, if you know, she wakes up today tomorrow and goes, Hey, I do want those shoes, right? Okay, there's maybe some more completion work to do. But like she was emotionally complete with a, a hope dream or expectation she had, right? I have an expectation.

Shoes are coming tomorrow magically from Amazon. Mom won't have a problem with it. I'm wearing them tomorrow. And then all of a sudden, that expectation is not met.

That produces energy. And then I love that. Lani. Lani has these skills and tools to be like, Hey, let me help you work through that emotional completion of a moment in time, right?

So it doesn't need to always be full relationship graph full letter. A lot of the time with kids were just helping them complete moments in time, right? Yeah. So that was so good.

Now we're kind of running out of time. So I want you to talk about your book. I want you to talk about what you have coming up, right? The, you know, grief recovery is a part of Lani's story, right?

But she also went on to create this thing called the compassion code. She wrote this book. She helps people business leaders with that. So would you mind just telling us a little bit about what you're doing there?

And then I know you have kind of an event coming up. Yeah. So thanks. Yeah.

So the compassion code was born at that first training in Bend, because I said to Cole, I was like, there's so many people out here who need these skills, but like who aren't ever going to go through the grief recovery certification, because they just either they don't know or they don't care or they don't want to or whatever the reasons are why people don't want to go deep, right? Because some people are scared of depth, right? Yep. And, and so I kind of would like to read you just like the first page of the book.

If that's okay, it's just that it's a little love note, which is it kind of just does the job of explaining what the book is all about. Is that okay? Sure. Yeah.

Says, dear compassionate warrior, does it feel like you have a sign across your head that says, tell me your troubles? You know who you are, you're the front line for humanity, the compassionate undercover caregivers. You work with people daily, either professionally or personally, and you support them through their troubles. I can relate.

While they're asking or not, people tend to tell me their stories, and I love hearing them. I love learning about their relationships, their hopes and dreams, and even their losses. If you are a human and you have a story, you do, then I am interested in knowing it. What I have to what I've come to realize and why I'm writing this book is that we don't always know what to say when people share the challenging stories of their lives.

And sometimes we even say the wrong things in response. Often we become drained by other people's stories because we think we have to have all the answers, which often leads us to stop asking the questions. Let me start by saying thank you. Thank you for being on the front lines.

I know it is not always easy. Thank you for caring enough to ask and more importantly, for caring enough to listen to the answer. We need more people like you on the planet. So that's my love letter to society and to all the undercover therapists in the world, like the hairstylists and the bartenders and the personal trainers and even people like my dad financial advisors, my dad, my dad said 90% of his job is listening to people's emotional stuff around money and 10% he's like, if I'm lucky, I get to tell them about their portfolio because that's his favorite part.

He's like, I'm their counselor when it comes to money. And if you think about it with money, birth, death, children, marriage, all the things that are complicated in life, like all that stuff, money is very much like whether you have not enough or like our deep retirement or like what are your dreams? Like all of it relates to money. And so he is constantly like in many ways, I wrote my book for him and so many other people who maybe don't have the title of helper, like they're here to like help people specifically with like, I want to help you get stronger, I want to help you get richer, I want to help you get whatever.

But then they end up being the people that everybody comes to and tell stuff to and my sister and not Aaron's sister, she's an extitition. And people have told her, you're my therapist, like you're the only person I tell about all these things. She needs them to ours a week when she does their lashes and she's an exceptional listener and she's a great, you know, she's so compassionate and I wrote the book for her too. So it's like all, even our grief recovery specialists, like sometimes they, oh, like they give and they give and they give, but they don't know how to self replenish, right, to care of themselves.

And as you and I both know, like that is crucial for being able to continue doing this incredible work. And so that's like what kind of continued going on. And so I still offer grief recovery, I still, and then I also offer compassionate communication courses and leadership courses for organizations who are going through big changes, but who really don't know how to support their employees, then don't know how to communicate effectively and really want to, they really care, but they just don't know how to show that they care in a way that people receive it. So like I talk to people about firing and how do you fire somebody in a way that doesn't burn the bridge of the last 10 years of them working with you?

Or like you know what I mean? So it's really been fun for me to continue the evolution and introduce, like read my book. There's 30 references to the grief recovery handbook, like hey, you have to read the grief, like because it is to me, it's like the foundation of of everything is grief, understanding the grief is underneath every trauma is underneath every challenge or conflict and relationship is some unmet hope dreamer expectation or something we wish for different better or more. So anyway, I love this and I love the the complimentary nature of these these two works and how they have been a gift to me and again, I give tribute to my mother because I wouldn't be here.

Doing this work like with you or writing this book or helping the people I've helped if it weren't for her her tragic death. Wow. Yeah. No, I love what you're doing and I think it's so needed and it's so complimentary like you said.

And that's that's that's incredible. We'll just keep doing what you're doing. And and did you say there is a summit coming up where people can do it? Yeah, so I'm going to hopefully if Cole and Ed will come join me.

I'm interviewing different people across industries here. I've already done hairstylists, adentists, a doggie surgeon and a parent coach. And I want to I would love to interview you, Cole and Ed talking about how compassion and communication plays out like how EQ matters in their job. Like why does emotional intelligence, why does listening matter, why does holding safe space matter for their work and why does that make every profession?

Like it takes somebody from being like good at their job to being exceptional at their job if they know how to communicate effectively through the difficulties of life. And that's what I'm doing right now. So it's called the Compassion Companion Summit right now. They're being recorded.

It might be like a little it's going to be like a 45 or 50 part series because there's just so many incredible people out there who are already so incredibly thoughtful kind of compassionate and and they're leading. And I want other people to get nuggets of wisdom of how we can bring that across industry. So that's my that's my vision. That's what I hope to and cool.

Yeah, well, you just let me know where and when and I would love to be part of that if you if you want. I love it. I do. Cool.

And so and Leilani, if people want to work with you, right? What is the best way to get in touch with you? So they can find me on Instagram just at Leilani, ColiBree. And that's my handle and or the CompassionCodecademy.com is my current website.

So they can find me there too. It'll be adjusting again for the name change. So if you see Laura Jack or you see Leilani, it's me. It's all me.

My picture is everywhere so that it's not confusing. And yeah, so I and I would I'm honored always to be of service and support that's my mission. I'm a lighthouse in the world. Yeah.

We sometimes it's sometimes it feels really dark at alone and we don't have to be alone in it. We never have to be alone because there's so many amazing humans out there who can support us. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I cannot follow that beautifully said. And again, I want to thank you for your time. I'm so glad that our paths have crossed and we are allies and kind of just helping this world heal from stuff. And so I love you.

I love your family. Send send our love to everybody. And and we'll definitely have you on for episode two at some point. And for you hopefully, you know, all of our listeners, hopefully you enjoyed that conversation.

Got some good stuff out of it. Please, please, please make sure that you like, subscribe, share this podcast, leave a review that all that all helps us get found by other people. All right, because there's not a lot of people talking about kind of the nuances that we're talking about here, right? And and so anyway, until next time, this is the Feel Free Again podcast.

And I'm your whole cold James. Have a great rest of your day or evening. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.