How to Understand the levels of Grief within Your Children, with guest Susan Dindinger

I mean crazy powerful um and by the end of that certification Having been able to get emotionally complete with all these things I had been carrying a lot I was aware of and some were deeper than I ever even knew So Susan let me let me ask you this really quickly just for the audience when you when you decided to work on your relationship with your father and that training with Russell was your father still alive at the time or had he died No, he was still alive Okay, so I want I want the audience to hear that because a lot of the time right with grief We just naturally assume that we're only unfinished with people who have died right in terms of who were grieving and the beauty of this work and I would say I don't have a percentage but a large percentage of people that do this work once they understand oh you can work on a living relationship because in fact you had been grieving your relationship with your father for your whole life right it we don't have to wait for that person to die To be able to heal all the grief that we have accumulated from a relationship that didn't turn out how we thought it should or how we wanted it to So anyway, I didn't mean to jump in there, but but I appreciate just I wanted to clarify for the audience like a lot of the time We're working and setting ourselves free emotionally from hurts and the the person is still alive and walking around right it doesn't have to be when they die is the only opportunity we have to do work on the on the grief caused in that relationship So go ahead Yeah, no and and I'm glad you're bringing that clarity because I think even When I initially went through the grief recovery method I had come because of the death of my sister and even using one of the tools that we use in the program I realized early on like Oh my dad is affecting my life even more than the death of my All these things, but I was too scared at the time to work on that relationship it was too overwhelming and and I just didn't feel safe enough or comfortable enough and I didn't have the assurance yet that the grief recovery method was actually going to work Right, so I want to go there and dredge up all that pain and hurt um if it wasn't if it was going to be for nothing So when I went to the certification You know, I did work on that and it was just kind of perfect because Russell was almost like this surrogate dad in that training I mean even gave me just the hug just bear hug You know at the end and it was It was such a gift I can't even put words to it, but um I felt literally physically like this huge weight had been lifted off me That I didn't even fully realize I had been carrying and that night the night after the last day I went to this meeting and a bunch of people friend saw me who had no idea that I had just gone through the certification training and they're like Wow, you know, Susie.

That's a lot of people call me Susie um, you look different Like you're glowing And I was just like whoa they had no idea um, so that was life changing and when I say that I really truly Mean that it was life changing because before Working on my dad getting emotionally complete with him Um, it was you know, I did this certification training and I think the end of January of A long time ago in 2023 so um You know my Boyfriend at the time Joseph, I'm now married to He was gonna propose and you know my intuition was just going off like And and my fear of like no, no, no, no, no, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. I'm not ready and just this panic Set in and so I told my best friend like I'm not ready, you know like Valentine's with coming up in a couple weeks. I was like no, no, no, no, no And sure enough he was gonna propose on Valentine's Day and and so she told him and so he you know changed all those plans and I went to the certification.

I worked on my dad. I got emotionally complete And then it's not always like this, but for me Literally, it was like a light switch. It really was where I was like I felt free Of this fear of these like false beliefs that had been imprisoning me um, and I was like yes I want to get married and Joseph is amazing. He's honestly the first healthy relationship I had ever had in my life and so then my birthday rolled around in March and he proposed on my birthday And the rest as you say his history, but he but he is Like a prince of a man like I There's almost no one like him on this earth and um So grateful so so so grateful For the gift that he has been in my life and then you know later being able to have two beautiful children and having him as you know the father figure that they have so different Then what I grew up with and just seeing even that and that just it could bring tears to my eyes just You know, you want your children always to have Better right then maybe what you had um, and so yes and and going back to your point earlier I think working on the relationship with my dad while he was still alive Um, it didn't change him Right he was still him But it changed me Like huge hugely in my heart And I realized afterwards I was going to go home probably for a holiday or something and I realized as I got to the front door That my whole body wanted to tense up before I walked through the front door And I was consciously aware of it whereas before I don't think I was ever consciously aware of that and And realizing that and being like no like I don't need to I'm okay.

I don't need to tense up And then when he would say a critical thing or Or do something rejecting or whatever else Not always, but eventually I found a voice where I could say wow dad that hurts. Why are you saying that to me? You know and I could speak up myself and slowly learn boundaries and and we ended up over time Actually developing a really amazing relationship before he died he he has died um And he died about 10 years after I got complete with him um and those 10 years were such a gift because we were able to connect in ways that You know if I hadn't done this work I never would have been able to And most of my life because he struggled with major depression and would talk about wanting to kill himself and wanting to die and I always took him seriously that was a fear I carried with me, right?

That when he actually did die Um, it was still painful. It was still awful. There's a whole story there, but um But having gotten emotionally complete with everything up to that point It wasn't as devastating or crippling as it would have been Right and he did not die due to suicide and he he died from cancer um And you know, and so it was just this is something I tell people all the time like this work like doing this before you lose someone Is hugely beneficial I saw that with my mom you know before she died um, I had worked on her and gotten emotionally complete with her and that dramatically changed Walking through her death You know for me. Yeah, and Susan before we I definitely want to cover that because I that that part of your story is very very powerful as well Let uh for though let's stay here for a second one of the things that I find so fascinating And I don't know how this happens, but I as a trainer of this work Susan I think we should mention that too, right?

Full disclosure Susan is an incredible trainer of this work So she conducts and leads certification trainings and if you ever are in her class consider yourself lucky because she's amazing And she's so thorough with the work um, and you're going to get a really thorough great experience if you train with Susan But but I digress um I don't think it was any coincidence that you What when it came time to do the work on your father and that willingness came for you I don't think there's any coincidence that Russell Friedman was your trainer right at that point For those that that are listening that don't know Russell Friedman was was one of the like pioneers of this work, right? He's he's co-author of the grief recovery handbook He dedicated a large portion of his life to help in grieving people He he was a wonderful man.

He passed away some years ago But he was an incredible man incredible mentor to so many of us and I miss him all the time. I love that man So I just wanted the audience to know who he is In terms of our work our organization Another piece of Russell's story that you know, he's gone on video talking about this So I'm not really breaking confidentiality here, but You know Russell Russell had a very similar childhood with his father right his father was very emotionally abusive to him It colored a lot of the belief system of how Russell who Russell thought he was because again as a child We take this stuff in his correct information So if our parents are giving us really lousy stuff about who we are We don't get to reject that and say you know what? I don't think that actually I'm a beautiful little child of God or whatever the truth is in your belief system We don't get to say that we we're gonna take in what mom or dad is feeding us about who we are right So Russell did that same thing and Russell Later in life ended up having two very very painful divorces And if you were to ask him before agree for recovery who was at fault for those divorces He would have told you just straight face no question about it his his wives were the the cause of those divorces Pretty much totally responsible for those divorces right and it wasn't until Russell did the grief recovery work the relationship graph the completion letter the powerful tools that we we utilize here On the relationship with his living father just like Susan until he did that work He literally saw no part in these divorces with these women.

He thought it was because they were completely the cause The power of the grief recovery method is um And again most of us would never correlate this until we do this work But he did the this relationship graph on his dad He did the letter with his dad he ended up having I think about 10 or 10 more years also with his dad And his his relationship with his dad his dad changed not because his dad changed But because his perception his heart his the the way you know the the boundaries the stimulus how it affected him All those things were massively changed through Getting what we call emotionally complete with what had happened in the past and only then Did he then go and look at his divorces in a totally different way and he found his part in those relationships And he found how difficult at times he was as the husband because of the past hurt that he had that was unfinished with his father And it humanized those women and the women that he divorced right and it gave him a better roadmap in which to kind of conduct a Different relationship right and he died I'll say this with an amazing partner that he had been with with for years and years right um An Alice if you're listening.

I love you too. I'm giving you a hug and you know He got to have a different Second half of his life because a grief recovery like Susan did like I have and We part of the reason we do this podcast is because at first glance of these tools at this method You would never put together the power of what you can do with this work, right? Usually people come because I am unfinished with a death I'm heartbroken over death and I want to come and heal from that and if that's you welcome We can totally absolutely put our arm around your shoulder and help you navigate that But there is so much more that this work provides it allows us to be Partners or spouses in relationships. We never thought we'd have it allows us to show up as parents that we never thought we were capable of showing up at Because the minute you complete your first relationship in this work We're gonna go and lovingly ask you okay.

What's the next one that hurts? Yeah, all right. Let's work on that. Let's work on that right and that's a piece that's hard to describe so anyway With all that being said right?

I just I don't think there's a coincidence that you got paired up with Russell as your trainer He had a lot of similar Lerodies that he could convey to you. I remember one time. I was in I want to say Palm Springs doing this work personally and you know I was working on a completion with my grandma Jean who is this wonderful grandma to me right and she and she died and I was heartbroken over it And I get paired up and I'm doing all this work with a lady very similar an age to my grandma right I'm doing all this completion work and this woman who's just her her role in this is to be a heart with ears and just hear me Reminds me of my grandma right as of that generation and it's like those things I again You do you but for me that that's these are all spiritual things that happen They're not just random coincidences and it happens very often our work where you either get paired with the person you need to be paired with or you're hearing it from an instructor that you need to hear it from and all these kind of amazing things happen On a weekly basis really like across the world right so anyway I wanted to say that but Susan if you if you would right let's go towards kind of the work with your mom and the healing that came from you around doing the work with your mom Yeah, and I will I'll I'd love to share that but when you were talking it made me think of one other thing I just wanted to share um now obviously there's no guarantees and no promises However in been teaching you know the grief recovery method for over two decades um There's you know, I started pretty young and I worked with a lot of younger single people when I was starting out doing you know groups and teaching this program and It was an amazing thing to see people you know get emotionally complete through this method with just these deep wounds that they were carrying and There's you know people who you know had always been single or just always maybe wanted to get married But never really finding the one or you know however you you You know want to put that over and over and over again I was seeing people after doing this work um Find the person That they were going to marry and then getting married and having these wonderful marriages and and I don't think that's a coincidence at all and again You know individual results may vary but Like no guarantees no promises, but I I really think it's a truth because I know for me that was true like I needed to kind of clean up my side of the street so to speak right deal with the young thing the things in my heart um That really needed healing so that I could be ready for Marriage and to be attracted to someone who was emotionally healthy and not abusive and not destructive and all the rest so It got to a point where in the church where I was doing this a lot in in less angiolous people were like Oh, yeah, I'm not even gonna get married unless my future spouse does the grief recovery method Because it just became a thing where people recognize the power of doing this work.

So Anyway, um, just wanted to know yeah, no, I think yeah, thank you Let's and I want to add on to that too, right because I think that's a really good thing you bring up here Here are the outcomes that we We see Uh, and there's more but I'll give so Susan mentioned the outcome where This work can literally take away blocks you've had and and really kind of open you up to the relationship that you want and really a tremendous things happen after grief recovery often like that um Sometimes grief recovery can also be because of my mom or dad or combination of the two and the belief systems They helped me form around what was acceptable in a relationship You know, we find participants who have been struggling about not being sure if they are in the right relationship sometimes for years right and they may do work on mom or dad and Get complete emotionally with mom or dad and then all of a sudden it's much more clear That this is not a healthy relationship for them that they're currently in and the only reason they're in it is because this is familiar Because it was what growing up was for them too and so their clarity may be this is not the right Partner for me and you know as painful as it can be I'm I'm moving forward.

I'm I'm moving on right So sometimes that can be the outcome as well is just clarity on This I was not certain for a long time and now I'm just certain this isn't isn't the right relationship for me Or I won't allow myself to be treated this way anymore It was just a matter of it was familiar to me because that's how my dad treated me right or that's how my mom treated me Right and so that can be another outcome sometimes and so that's why we don't ever want to promise Hey, it's all going to be you know rainbows and clouds after the method Sometimes it can be clarity that we have to make the hard decision Sometimes though I've seen this very often is We we may get in a rut where we place a lot of the blame on our partner and then through grief recovery um We see oh wow We have a whole part in this and we're not the victim of of this whole relationship And in fact the met the the work has identified all these amazing things and times in my relationship with this person that when I fell on love Right it kind of there's some tools we don't want to get into here But there's some we we really have you look at the good the bad the bitter the sweet all of it And then a lot of the time people wind up finding a lot more good They're but but they were being clouded by the bad and when when we can help say goodbye to the bad All of a sudden we have access to the good and then all of a sudden Our marriage or our relationship is enhanced and we go back in that relationship with the whole different love and appreciation for that person And also a little bit more accountability on hey, we had a big pardon it too, right?

And so that can be an outcome as well So I just want to for the audience I want to practically say because this stuff can be scary It can be very scary to go work on a on a parent or on on on your husband or your wife, right? So you know, I just I wanted to kind of just mention the different outcomes In full disclosure, I've worked on my wife I worked on my wife at a time where if you were to ask me I would say yeah, we have a good marriage, right? I still needed to work on my wife because there are still things there that I want to get complete with emotionally So I'm not carrying day-to-day in my current marriage with her So don't it's not even a judgment on whether or not you think you have a good relationship doing grief recovery work on your partner Right same with your children It's not a judgment on your relationship with your children We recommend that you get emotionally complete up until current day With the pain and the the hurt and the past of before so you can be way more present for what is now and what will be in the future If you are unfinished with the past it will it will negatively affect every interaction day-to-day that you have with these people Right, we can't clarify that enough um Because we know it to be true, right?

So anyway, I'm so glad you brought up that point Susan anything else to add to that part of our conversation Well, I just think um, you know sometimes obviously just like we equate the word grief with death, you know So we think the grief recovery method is only for a death and and that's a lot of what I've been sharing about is these You know My family. I mean all of them my family of origin all of them have died So that's definitely what I've walked through but these tools have been helpful for So many other things in my life as well even even friendships Right um so many things and it's not just for even the sad negative or painful relationships I think doing this work as you just shared like with your wife, you know It can enhance our current relationships um by doing this work even you know the positive loving relationships that we have And uh just kind of open our eyes and and and help us um to make those even better So it's just such a gift to have this you know these very practical tools Because as human beings like we are relational We live in relationship with all the people in our lives all around us And so to have tools to be able to know how to navigate, you know all of that is Really really beneficial Yeah a current term is emotional IQ right and I will say that no doubt grief recovery the this method has helped me enhance my emotional IQ to a level I would have never been capable of Um without the grief recovery method so there's no way I could relate to my wife emotionally without these tools like I I can Um and my children too and that doesn't mean I'm perfect trust me I'm far from perfect I can play many many many mistakes But my my emotional awareness is 10 times what it would have been without these tools And that is huge in these in these relationships like you said You know, I know you've had this experience.

I have two now um and our friends uh that are listening who are a hospice You have more experience than us but on on people's deathbeds right They're almost never talking about the car that they drove or the the cool mortgage in house they had or the all the school They went to they're not talking about that stuff. They're talking about relationships So wouldn't it be better if we focus on being very good at approaching relationships on a daily basis with high emotional IQ Right and that's essentially what the grief recovery method does When we choose to work on living relationships is it helps us kind of Go there um the fact of the matter is If I am unfinished with two three past girlfriends. I've had um I'm unfinished with how my mom treated my dad or how my dad treated my mom I am bringing all of that into my current marriage and that is just flat out unfair to my wife It's on my wife, you know her name is Ashley and if I come in with years of unfinished business from other people It is unfair for me to bring that and drag that into my current relationship So if I can go unpack a bunch of that stuff and be free of that stuff I'm really now seeing my wife and I'm really getting to be who I was intended to be and and again, I'm so glad because I know Ashley has done work on past relationships She's had she's done work on parents.

I know that to be true that has allowed us to be together for over 20 years and um And have a relationship that I think we're both really proud of and grateful for right and uh again That's because of grief recovery and that's because when we're in an argument For the most part if we're in an argument tomorrow, let's say I'm arguing with her and she's arguing with me She's not arguing with her father of 20 years ago I'm not arguing with my my you know my girlfriend that was unfaithful to me 31 years back or whenever it was right We only have two people in the room arguing back and forth The problem is so many of our relationships when when you're in an argument There's like four or five people in the room Right and that is the problem Obviously, they're not all there physically But they're in your heart.

They're in your partner's heart and we're arguing with a bunch of unfinished pain Created not necessarily around what this person is did or did not do right and that that's the beauty of this work Yeah, absolutely absolutely. It's yeah amazing um So and and speaking to that too, I think um because earlier you were asking about my mom um who you know also died and um And partly you know doing this work like with her while she was still alive um, it really helped so much when it came around to Her death we had walked through a lot together. I was super super close to my mom Um, I think especially just growing up with you know my dad struggling with major depression and everything it made me kind of Kling a little bit more to my mom um, we were always super close. We had a really deep special bond and um, again, not you know not perfect not a perfect relationship by any means There's always stuff in every relationship right here, but um doing this work with her Really helped me navigate things later because when my dad died um, within a month my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and dementia and um, it became clear with my dad out of the picture How far gone she actually was because he had been taking care of all these things right um and You know, and then she collapsed um It she had a pulmonary embolism so there was literally a blood clot that went through her heart straddled her lungs terrifying terrifying Um, I jumped on a plane.

This is not what killed her. This is just some of the stuff we went through but um, jumped on a plane. She was living in California And went to the hospital just terrified. I mean she almost died, you know, she really did um, and then By the time I got I left the hospital she was in there for about 10 days.

I went to my parents home um, you know, and like I said my dad had already died And I opened the front door and I couldn't walk in the house because the amount of stuff Was overwhelmed like she had become a hoarder And there was stuff everywhere. There was a little narrow pathway to walk through the house and just the overwhelm of all that was Just insane. I remember calling my uncle just in tears because it was just too much to handle um And so I basically had a week to take care of all that so that she could come home from the hospital and have a safe You know living situation and later because of predators and all these things as Alzheimer's and dementia escalated We had to move her to Austin where we were living because it was it became unsafe for her to be alone um, and you know anybody who's gone through this in caretaking for a loved one especially with Alzheimer's and dementia It is it really is a living nightmare I think for most people it really is because It's a slow death.

It's like a slow loss of this person that you love There were days that my mom was my mom And then there were days that she sort of it changed her personality It changed who she was and there was days that she was this person. I didn't recognize and I didn't like You know and she was mean Sometimes like she would take things out on me because I think I was the closest person. So You know naturally she she kind of did that and that's what part of the horror of that disease is that it really does Change people and and it's a mental illness. It's not their fault.

They're not in control of that But it's still painful and and devastating You know it really is and so we went through a lot I was her primary caretaker for years Which was a major roller coaster ride and one of the hardest things actually I've ever walked through um, but at the end Uh, it was COVID and And you know she was telling me how she had this pain in her foot And so I arranged she was at a you know independent living facility She was too abusive for us to have her in our home because of our young children. We didn't want to expose them to that But I arranged for her to have a meeting with a doctor She they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her foot. They dismissed it. We went to a family wedding Her foot never got better by the time we got back from this wedding She showed me a picture of her foot and it was black and blue and it terrified me I took her to the ER right away They couldn't find a pulse in her foot One thing led to another and next thing I know They're saying they need to amputate her leg from the knee down And I'm like no, what this can't be happening like my mom is this incredibly like free spirit independent woman like super social and all this stuff And I know this is gonna be just I can't even imagine and because of her mental state I had to explain this to her Like at least five times But they would amputate her leg because she would forget and I wanted it to be her decision If she wanted to do this or not.

I mean she was in so much pain at that time That you know and and so she made the decision. I want to be around. I want to be around you I want to be around my grandkids So we went forward with the surgery The night before the surgery I got a call from her doctor Who told me that they Realized that she actually had pancreatic cancer Because they found this when they were doing these tests and that she probably had weeks to live This is right the night before she has this Incredibly intense surgery So I was like oh tilt right can't do So we went ahead through the surgery and she never got strong enough to even go to rehab Um, I think because of the cancer she never walked again Um, we had a choice like it was so hard going through that because it was COVID she didn't die from COVID She did die from the pancreatic cancer, but like I was her um Uh power of attorney, right because she With the dementia with us all the cembers they would ask her questions She would answer like she knew what was going on and it was terrifying because they never knew what she was gonna say So I had to fight my way into the hospital to be in her room every day and Like they would some days they would let me in and some days they wouldn't because of all this you know COVID protocol and so it was so scary because I never knew What they were gonna do what they weren't gonna do um, you know I needed to be involved in every step and I couldn't always be involved And so at the end of all this they were like well We could send her to a rehab place, but I wouldn't be able to visit the kids wouldn't be able to see her They never could see her this whole time Um because of COVID protocols And so we opted to bring her into our home with hospice Um, which we had her in our home the last three weeks of her life And that way we could be with her the kids could be with her and It was those three weeks were actually Such a gift It sounds so weird, but Because I was emotionally complete with her there was really very little I needed to say Except for how I loved her and how grateful I was for her And there were beautiful moments like I was able to totally spoil her and You know get her favorite foods and her favorite music and all these things and she and you know the kids and I like all crawled up on this bed And watched a movie together with her like it was just incredibly special beautiful moments And so by the time she died It was so different than what I had experienced with my dad or with my sister Because I was emotionally complete with her because nothing had really gone unsaid Still really painful.

I mean it's losing my mom, but But there was a it sounds weird, but there was a beauty to it and a piece Um, and it was just a totally different experience um But when it came to her funeral and all that stuff that was more grief because You know my mom like she knew everybody she was you know a fourth generation Californian she knew the whole community in the Bay Area like I mean she was very social Okay, she made an impact So to have this funeral we couldn't have this funeral with her family with her friends with her loved ones It wasn't allowed So we had to have this outdoor funeral Um, you know where she was buried with a handful of relatives and you know friends who were like family we were capped at I think 20 I don't remember um and None of her immediate family were there Like her siblings weren't there because they were afraid to travel because of COVID and It was just heartbreaking Because it wasn't It wasn't representative of her It wasn't the funeral that I wanted to have to really honor her It didn't it didn't show who she was and her best friend wanted to be there so badly and and didn't because of COVID Right, there was just so much fear Um at the time and that's understandable because of what we were taught and told Um, but it was heartbreaking.

There was like an extra added layer of grief and loss Can't imagine how painful at times it was and like you said how beautiful at times it was um I I can really relate I had I had some similar experiences with the death of my father and he died in our in our family home and Um and because I had these tools I I knew how to get emotionally complete with the time that I had with him right and It was incredible because he created this method. So what's he doing with me? He's getting emotionally complete with me and then my mom comes over and she's working on getting complete with him And then my sister walks over and it was amazing I'd never seen anything like it um and I don't know if I've shared this publicly or not If I have forgive me if you've heard this story, but I have never been a part of a basically someone dying where almost every single person every visitor uh All has been through the grief recovery method.

Okay, so people were flying from across the country to spend a day with my dad and flying out You know, or they'd stay for three days all across the world basically Mostly the United States, but there were some even international travelers where the word had gotten out They knew there wasn't much time. They were checking with my mom Do you mind if I come in for a day and they were all practicing these principles, right? They had all come they were clear on what was unfinished They were clear on the significant emotional statements they wanted to make and there was like literally weeks of Us entertaining people that loved him that he loved and everyone was just openly and honestly communicating and getting complete with each other And it was the most It was the most mind blowing thing I've ever been a part of and my father's dying too, right?

So it's like from one from one Kind of regard. I'm a spectator and I'm a grief recovery professional and I understand what's going on at another I'm like just getting punched in the gut over and over because of how sad these things are and um So anyway, I've just never had been a part of anything like that We're almost everyone during the dying process understood what they needed to do because there was grief happening Right, it's not like the grief was starting the minute he died, right? And everyone was on board with that So it was pretty phenomenal The other thing that I kind of wanted to check in with you about and our listeners is look I know right now We're looking at Israel and Palestine and and the Ukraine and Russia and I know there has been so many things that have come after COVID but I will say this in my humble opinion.

I don't like to rank or or or do that But the amount of unresolved Accumulated grief that has happened from COVID Worldwide I don't know if there is an event that I mean, maybe you could say the plague or the world wars But the amount of accumulated unfinished emotional grief that has happened because of COVID is immeasurable and it is not gone away and it is it has made our daily interactions It's affecting our daily interactions. It's affecting our empathy towards other people It's affecting obviously households and extended families and I mean we could with the list goes on but It's it is heartbreaking the amount of unfinished grief that we are all holding and caring around in our emotional backpacks From COVID and none of it has gone away and most of it has not been healed And then we pile on all these other kind of social and cultural issues that we're battling every day But I'll tell you this I have never seen anything like what we're dealing with because of COVID So Susan you painted a grim picture just on what you're dealing with with your mom with with funerals and memorials and Hospital access and those are all hugely hurtful to people and then let's add on Let's say I think that the you know I have one opinion on the vaccine and you have another and you have a different opinion on the vaccine now We have a loss of trust in each other or you believe in masks and I don't believe in masks Now we have a loss of trust in each other and again this can be our Significant other this can be our apparent that we always thought was so wise and now we're so divided on this topic, right?

Um, and we could do this down the line on The loss of trust in the system. There could be people that can be trust in the health care system And now they're the loss of trust in the health care system is never coming back, right? It could be loss of trust in the government Or you know Hey, I don't agree with how you how you thought we needed to do this right the these are all significant grief events And these are all affecting people on a daily basis just like earlier in the podcast We talked about how past hurt from a ex or past hurt from a parent can can really color and affect your daily relationship with your partner Um past hurt and grief around a Worldwide event right and and all these different relationships that we had are Forever changed because of unresolved grief around those things right um And I just want to point that out because I don't think many people certainly are not connecting the dots like we are to the grief of it Right, they they may be voicing their opinions and their anger and all those things But at the very core this is a loss of trust in each other in our systems in our society in our government in our people that we have viewed as authority figures Right um, this is massive massive grief and if we don't look it at that way then we're going to misdiagnose and mistreated or or have Maybe not the best ways to heal from this if we're not looking at it at the core as grief Um, and you know and and so I just wanted to touch on that too um Because it hurts my heart right oh Yeah, and the division that it's caused that you talked about like That's huge grief just just to have like things be so incredibly polarizing Where you know people sometimes don't even feel like they can be honest About their feelings about a particular issue because everything is so Charged and everything.

It's almost like it's set up for You know division and argument and conflict and and stuff but but also the thing that I think as a parent That's been heartbreaking for me to see is is what children Have gone through who you know, I have two children who are school age still and and watching them kind of navigate COVID and um, you know, especially my son we uh We actually homeschool so we were not even part of like a regular public school system but um the initial year right that COVID broke out and I think we really didn't know there's so much misinformation We didn't know what was going on But there was division with the campus because we meet you know with the campus once a week There was division there between to vaccinate not vaccinate mask not mask whatever where this campus actually split Into you know the following year two different locations.

So We ended up, you know going to one and this is while my mom was dying actually so I couldn't even deal with With all of this drama I'm like I just told one of my best friends. Okay, wherever you end up, we're just gonna go there too because I can't you know um But for my son My daughter's group pretty much stayed intact, but my son's group like he went from campus to campus to campus For a few years where Where I just saw his heart slowly shut down Because of all the change that that produced and not being able to get together with friendships not being able to You know continue to maintain these friendships over time, which is what we wanted for him um and what's kind of cool, but Is that this coming year he's gonna actually um re-unite with a lot of his old best buddies from years ago pre-COVID times And when we went to this campus I literally saw a part of his heart come back to life Because of the connection that he had with these kids that he lost Long ago and it brings tears to my eyes because you know, I love my son and yeah Just seeing the power of that how You know how sad it is that that these things happen and we allow this division To occur But then the power of the other side and that that's possible to you know Uh, yeah, thank you for that and and for me like my take on I love that your son had that experience right and and I It's part of that I think is you put him back in that area where he could emotionally communicate with his friends And he knows how to do that because of you know your guy's parent parenting and and that's all great And I love that and and and you're right like I think What I don't see happening right now in society as us having any sort of a dialogue at all right like if when you were hurt by your father You did a bunch of completion work and then you got to go have a dialogue with him And the next thing he did you could say that hurts like hey, I want to hang out with you But it has to be on my terms it can't be like this right But you had tools to have a dialogue and what I don't see in this country is us having enough tools to have a dialogue To understand okay, I see where you're coming from But when this is how it felt for me when when you did that or when when the system did this right there's no Conversation happening right our our best our best plan right now seemingly is to just pretend it didn't happen and move forward And I'll tell you that's a recipe for a very divided society that doesn't trust each other because no one is emotionally communicating Um or feels like they can do that and and therefore we're all harboring these feelings right and and there's no There's no reconciliation.

There's no resolution happening emotionally for tens of millions of Americans and billions of people worldwide and it's a real problem You know and I I heard someone you know weeks ago We were having this conversation and they're like yeah, but coal like we're way past that and then they rifled off five or seven other divisive topics in the world that are all valid divisive topics too but I disagreed with their assessment that We're just on to the next thing. I think COVID laid the groundwork for all of us to be emotionally emotionally heartbroken on a number of topics Including just the amount of people who died via COVID as well. I you know, I don't want to negate that But it is so much more than people grieving just deaths from COVID. It is all of these other things that are Uh really crumbling of the foundation of of who we are and so we have to start looking at it through this lens of healing and And that starts with emotionally Emotional communication Um in in a safe place to do that right and and that starts in our families in our relationships With with those people otherwise we're we're just in big big trouble coming out of COVID.

I think Yeah, yeah, and I think there's been so much hurt right um And it's understandable like I could understand both sides really I can and and so you know I know if their family events we had family events where Certain people were like hey if you haven't been vaccinated don't come you know or There I've heard stories about you know grandparents not able to See or want to see their grandchildren because of different things like that or all this stuff and and I totally get you know the fear and safety and and Concerns and everything else but just like my mom's funeral like For me it was heartbreaking to not have any of her immediate family there to not have her best friend there And I know it was heartbreaking for them Right, but but all this you know all this stuff. I think has cause riffs in families You know um oh You know they really need to be healed because at the end of the day like Our loved ones our families like that's so much more important You know Then that's all the rest it really is I'm not trying to minimize anything But I think it's so important that we queue into that because just like you said at you know At the end of our lives the thing that matters most is our relationships And if if those are a mess and if we're a strange from everyone if we're divided from everyone Like we're gonna just live with so much pain and regret You know One thing losing all my family has taught me is to not take time for granted to Right, like you never know And so to do Yeah, yep, absolutely and I think one of the things that We what I love about grief recovery is I will time and time again fly all over the country and a couple of weeks ago Across the the globe to it to England and time and time again after about a day of us just All being read into what the deal is which is we all Grieve at a hundred percent of whatever our life experiences are where it's not a pecking order And we all all of our feelings for us are our our feelings right when you can do that for people and remind each other like Hey, we're on a room to help each other with heartbreak Uh, you transcend and rise above all most of all of these problems all of these divisions right um and I love that and and that's in the first day I'm not even talking when we get into forgiveness and the apologies we need to make to others right and then just identifying a significant emotional statements that bring us together um grief recovery has forced me to look at my part and make apologies where I needed to right That was huge grief recovery has forced me to look at forgiveness and the pain that with holding forgiveness is causing me Right right and that is what so many people are incapable of I mean look I've worked with people all the time and they're they're old elder mom or dad died alone in a hospital bed with or with complete strangers That is absolutely heartbreaking infuriating for that grieving person These people need apologies made to them I'm sorry.

I'll just say it. There are things That again, whether you're on one side of this issue or another side of this issue. There are things that we need to forgive other people for Right um It seems like none of that is happening and it seems like a lot of folks don't have the tools or skills to do that Um, I'm not saying this is easy work, but again to keep a society together I think this is the core thing that needs to be taught and learned by a bunch of us is how to forgive when we feel like we were really really wrong And also how to apologize and see when we did actually have a really when we messed up right um And then sprinkle in yeah go ahead Sorry sorry to interrupt but I just circling back to my dad because I think it's a perfect example of what you're even talking about I was so um focused On all the things he had done that hurt me Right, I was well aware that I needed to forgive him, but I had no idea how to do that And it didn't even make sense to me right there was a time in my life um That I basically made a decision to cut him out of my life because I didn't want the hurt and pain anymore It was too much and I couldn't take it anymore.

I couldn't handle it anymore I literally in my heart kind of disowned my dad Like it got to that point um and then in doing this work I realized that not only was there forgiveness there But there were apologies and the apologies Right for I needed to apologize for hating him There were times I wish he was dead which is a horrific thing to say and admit, but it's also emotionally true um There were times I had dreams of him dying and I felt relief when I woke up and that's just so ugly and disgusting um But it's also emotionally true And without admitting that and being honest about that and then apologizing For hatred apologizing for these things I was carrying in my heart that stuff set me free As much if not more than the forgiveness Which I had Apologies were that powerful no idea right?

Yep, yep, the And and that's true that has been true for me too. I love that the my apologies The amount of what's the word I'm looking for here um Again, it's really easy again in this world our default I think is to feel like the victim and the feel the victim of of circumstances and and and that can be very valid But when we turn around and we start really digging for all for our apologies that that's power That that gives you that power back to be like oh, I did have a part Maybe my part was just I was I just stuck around for too long You know or maybe the my part is I allowed this to happen and I had I definitely played a part in this and You know again those these skills and then a Susan you know and I know there There's been times where forgiveness was absolutely the key to me unlock what I needed to and I had been holding onto Unforgiveness for so long So it can it can be both ways and then sprinkle in a bunch of just significant emotional statements That that are designed really just to for you to identify the ways that you do get closer to people I mean one from your story earlier too and is when you when you said your dad The dementia for your mom was exposed more Because when your dad was gone you realized how much he was doing for her oh well Yeah, right now now we have a significant emotional statement right just to give the audience kind of a practical Hey dad, I didn't realize how much you did for mom until you weren't here.

Thank you for that right or whatever that You're true this those things though Again are not happening because if we don't have the forgiveness ironed out in a relationship And if we don't have the apologies ironed out in the relationship It's very hard to discover all of the significant emotional statements that are generally in a A positive of a positive nature If you don't know at all what I'm talking about I just implore you to come do the work get get in touch with a grief recovery specialist We got them worldwide. They are amazing talk to us about what we do at the at the institute level which is certifications and some other stuff But and or look up the book and do it with a friend But at some level if this stuff is interesting to you give it a shot there. I haven't seen anything like this This is not therapy.

It's not spiritual work. It's not intellectual work This is core emotional work designed only around grief the the fact of the matter is though So much of what we're dealing with and struggling with as a people As a world as a planet is grief. It's not being called that though But it is that right and and so look we're at the one hour mark, which is crazy So Susan I want to thank you again for joining us. You're just an incredible human being I'm lucky to call you a friend and I'm lucky to know your whole family I know I keep threatening to do this, but at some point I'm hanging with you in Texas again Um, but but any any kind of final thoughts from you before we wrap Susan Oh gosh There's so much I could say but um, but truly just I mean, thank you cool for for having me on again and um, I mean from the bottom of my heart.

I know before I found the grief recovery method and and you know, I'm There's so many things out there, right? It's so confusing. It's so hard. It's so lonely When you're grieving and it's scary and it's hard to know where to turn and I I mean Personally went from thing to thing to thing um That wasn't helpful and and more than anything.

I just want To give people hope That you don't have to be stuck wherever you are if you are stuck Right that there really are things that we can do. I wish this was like in all our schools I wish this was just like You know basic relational education 101, you know where we all had these You know skills and tools because the world would be dramatically different Um, but it really is something that no matter where you are no matter what you're dealing with I mean, it really can be life changing and you know, it's just It's one of the best things I've ever done in my life So I just want to give people hope that that there are things they can practically do That will help them so thank you What wonderfully put Susan Okay, and I want to thank you for listening Please share this podcast with others that you think would benefit please like and subscribe also If you want to leave a five star review that really helps this podcast get found by other people as well So I hope you all have a wonderful rest of your day or evening and we will catch you again on the feel free again podcast Thank you all.

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